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all right we should

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we should be live i'm going to check

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on my youtube just to make sure and see

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can you hear the tv in the background

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there we go and i am going to go we are

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live

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yeah i can hear fine

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can you hear this the tv and the family

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room at my house in the background i

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cannot hear your tv but we are up

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boom

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welcome back michael

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it's good to be back

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it's been a while oh yeah always great

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to have you um i was going through my

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list i'm like who are the most

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knowledgeable people i know about ufos

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it's you

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eric davis george knapp those are the

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top three i mean i'm sure there's other

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people i'm forgetting

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but as far as history

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and

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i know a lot of people when they hear

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that you're going to be on the show to

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like

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oh i can't wait to hear michael what he

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has to say so i'm really curious because

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we haven't talked about it really we've

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done a couple attacks but

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you know you said you enjoyed the book

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but

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like i said we're going to spend the

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first hour talking about the cover and

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how it wasn't a great cover it's like

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people there are people that have

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focused on the cover right now and

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having long discussions on the cover so

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we're not going to do that the cover was

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fine i didn't care i got it early i

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looked i read i read it a second time

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we will start off i know the other day

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some people don't know how this all

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started so i'll just quickly just

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so back in and i do have notes back in

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so james litkatsky

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who is

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a rocket scientist basically and we

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heard senator reid had spoken about him

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before saying you know this rocket

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scientist and i believe he has a degree

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in uh physics uh

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and math

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so he gets a hold

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and i'm gonna first before we even get

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there let me just read some of uh just

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quick stuff from the book it's there's a

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there's a line in the book that says the

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new york the new york times which did

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the article in 2017 they created

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enormous confusion and i didn't expect

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them to be as hard on the times as they

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were but i mean i knew that was the

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sentiment but i didn't know if it would

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make it to the book that strong uh the

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article created enormous confusion by

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mistakenly linking the 22 million

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funding to the small informal atip

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initiative

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and i don't know what your thoughts are

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but i i said it not the money but i

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didn't learn about the money right away

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but i did learn that asap was the

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original program and every almost every

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newspaper got it wrong

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um and i know lou couldn't talk about it

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so i don't blame him for that what are

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your thoughts on that i mean that's

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really bad reporting i'm sorry i love

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that they covered it but you you missed

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the main program and it was talked about

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by george knapp for two years and i kept

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saying why isn't wire and leslie kane

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and rob blumenthal and

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you know

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brian bender and the guy who wrote the

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washington post article none of them

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corrected their articles so any thoughts

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on that

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yeah i i think um

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if you're not leslie kane and blumenthal

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and reporters if you change the group

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that met with

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was it uh melon

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and um

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and lou elizondo

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when they first met louis elizondo right

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and they explained all of this

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if you change the group that's meeting

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to a group of

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folks i don't know like myself or like

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pikaski or anybody that's worked in that

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environment

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and understands

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what i refer to as programmatics

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and

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program ownership program sponsorship

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and agency ownership

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and the authorities that come with all

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that

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and uh and associations within the

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community it's pretty

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it's easier for someone say with my

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background to understand um

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the

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sponsor of a program

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and other and understand other agencies

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that are involved but if you're trying

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to explain all of that and especially

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programmatics about the layering

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which came first

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uh and all of these acronyms which we

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all in this that line of work you know

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we swim in a sea of acronyms it's it's

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got to be confusing and i don't think

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it's a fault of theirs

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so much as it's um

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[Music]

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they're they're they're

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you know

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probably shocked

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a little shock and awe going on with the

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with the details around this what

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they're learning at the time right

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and this structure

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this program structure

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is more like the rapper or the wrapping

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on the present or the gift

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they're focusing on the gift and it's

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probably

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just got i say lost in the swirl or not

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understood because of the um

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uh

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maybe the complexity of all of it

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and um

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i think you're being too nice i think

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you are because i understand that but i

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mean two years napa has been reporting

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it it's not like he's been reporting it

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secretly you think they would see that

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say okay we got it wrong but

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for people who don't know you if people

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are seeing you for the first time just

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what's your background real quick and

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just mention your citing when that

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happened or what it was

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so i had um under 10 years in the navy

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as a cryptologic

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cryptologic linguist crypto linguist

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uh and naval air crewman um

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i had my sighting when i was in the

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persian gulf in 1992

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and um

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after the navy i became a defense

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contractor overseas working for lockheed

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martin and then

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after that i became

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basically what's called a sita systems

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engineering and technical advisory or

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seat a contractor

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for the intelligence community

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specifically

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and when was your sighting just briefly

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when was it and what exactly did you see

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so 1992 i was in the persian gulf in the

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summer

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and um i was on board an aegis cruiser

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and we were right beside an aircraft

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carrier literally you could have thrown

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a baseball probably and hit it

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and we were right beside this carrier on

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purpose we were doing an underway drill

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where you connect hoses lines and cables

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and transfer goods or fuels and whatever

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else

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and i have been

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down inside the skiff

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where i normally operate

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and i

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took some time i got on the radio and

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talked to the other guys like me in the

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area within the region and made sure i

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was covered and okay to leave my

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workstation and i went top side and got

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up onto the top most part of the ship

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without maybe you know like climbing a

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mast or something i got up on the 06

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level above the bridge on this um

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aegis cruiser and i was watching

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everything going on with the underway

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replenishment exercise where we were

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connected to the to the aircraft carrier

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we're moving along about i don't know

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what they probably 12 knots

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10 10 to 15 knots so

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and i suddenly

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sort of felt

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as much as sensed or heard

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something that sounded like a deep

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guttural roar of maybe an aircraft a jet

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aircraft

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and and i quickly looked around there

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were no flight ops on the carrier

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there was there was nothing aloft as far

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as aircraft

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and and all this in the span of a couple

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of seconds and and then i looked up

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along with another guy i didn't know

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there were three or four people up there

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a couple that were working and another

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guy seemed to be sort of hanging out

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like me

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we both looked up and it was one of

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those wtf moments

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and we saw this pristine

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black triangle

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that had was flying

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i said it was about

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less than ten thousand feet and that's

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because the conditions if you'd been any

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higher i wouldn't have been able to see

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it because the persian gulf in the

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summer is so hot

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and humid and hazy and i'm looking up

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through all of that

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um

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haze and i and i see this triangle

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that's that's rounded not sharp pointed

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on on the apexes

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and it's moving directly overhead us

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as if it flew up from behind us like it

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had maybe followed our wake in the ocean

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and then caught up to us and overflew us

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you know that's sort of my sense it was

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flying in the exact same direction we

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were we were cruising

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and the sighting lasted about

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no more than 10 seconds

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had these really ultra bright

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spots one in each corner

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that were um

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even though it was hazy they were so

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bright you know you could you could tell

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that they were ultra bright like say

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welders aren't bright but they were

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and it was unnatural

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it was um

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it was it was you know we were shocked

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and um

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i had no idea what it was and i i was

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sort of uniquely familiar with with

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aerospace

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vehicles of all sorts

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i have an advanced degree in

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aviation science

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the focus on aerospace i worked in

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government aerospace at nro and other

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agencies

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for over 21 years and

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i knew what the f-117

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looked like i'd sing them up close

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i knew what the b-2 bomber looks like

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and this was not

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you could not confuse this

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if you were knowledgeable about military

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aviation united states military aviation

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you couldn't confuse this with any kind

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of known aircraft that had been unrolled

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at the time

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um and your thoughts are that this was

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you think it was our technology

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i just because of the controlled

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airspace around an aircraft carrier

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um especially in that region which is

285
00:10:34,949 --> 00:10:31,279
you know a really sensitive

286
00:10:37,670 --> 00:10:34,959
region um i mean the re the fact that i

287
00:10:40,069 --> 00:10:37,680
had to make sure that i had

288
00:10:42,870 --> 00:10:40,079
linguistic coverage

289
00:10:45,110 --> 00:10:42,880
for that battle group before i left my

290
00:10:48,470 --> 00:10:45,120
workstation and went up went up top side

291
00:10:51,910 --> 00:10:48,480
outside the ship to go watch all this

292
00:10:54,470 --> 00:10:51,920
means that you have to have 24 7

293
00:10:55,430 --> 00:10:54,480
eyes and ears on what's going on in the

294
00:10:57,190 --> 00:10:55,440
region

295
00:10:58,710 --> 00:10:57,200
to support that aircraft carrier and the

296
00:11:02,470 --> 00:10:58,720
battle group

297
00:11:03,829 --> 00:11:02,480
and um so i made sure i had somebody

298
00:11:05,430 --> 00:11:03,839
covering me

299
00:11:07,430 --> 00:11:05,440
whether it's you're going to if you're

300
00:11:10,389 --> 00:11:07,440
going to go back to your rack to grab a

301
00:11:11,590 --> 00:11:10,399
book or grab something for for lunch or

302
00:11:14,310 --> 00:11:11,600
whatever if you're leaving your

303
00:11:16,230 --> 00:11:14,320
workstation and it's your job to be at

304
00:11:17,910 --> 00:11:16,240
that workstation you need coverage

305
00:11:20,949 --> 00:11:17,920
so that's just the linguistic the

306
00:11:23,590 --> 00:11:20,959
cryptologic support that we we provide

307
00:11:24,790 --> 00:11:23,600
there's also the the uh the air radar

308
00:11:28,470 --> 00:11:24,800
picture

309
00:11:30,470 --> 00:11:28,480
that the cruiser itself the the the

310
00:11:32,710 --> 00:11:30,480
mobile bay

311
00:11:34,949 --> 00:11:32,720
at the time was providing to the

312
00:11:37,269 --> 00:11:34,959
aircraft carrier battle group

313
00:11:39,110 --> 00:11:37,279
this is really sensitive air space

314
00:11:40,790 --> 00:11:39,120
so um

315
00:11:42,550 --> 00:11:40,800
if any other aircraft other than an

316
00:11:45,030 --> 00:11:42,560
allied aircraft

317
00:11:47,030 --> 00:11:45,040
approaches then that

318
00:11:49,030 --> 00:11:47,040
is going to warrant scrambling a jet

319
00:11:50,629 --> 00:11:49,040
fighter off the carrier

320
00:11:53,829 --> 00:11:50,639
to go out and take a look at it and

321
00:11:56,790 --> 00:11:53,839
probably escort it as it gets closer

322
00:11:58,310 --> 00:11:56,800
and and steer it away you know they they

323
00:12:00,790 --> 00:11:58,320
fend them off a lot of times the

324
00:12:01,910 --> 00:12:00,800
iranians will come out and take a look

325
00:12:05,590 --> 00:12:01,920
and this thing

326
00:12:09,990 --> 00:12:08,069
there was nothing extraordinary that

327
00:12:10,949 --> 00:12:10,000
showed me that there was a reaction to

328
00:12:13,190 --> 00:12:10,959
it

329
00:12:15,030 --> 00:12:13,200
from a sensor

330
00:12:16,949 --> 00:12:15,040
or weapon systems

331
00:12:19,750 --> 00:12:16,959
standpoint

332
00:12:22,389 --> 00:12:19,760
and i quickly went back down below deck

333
00:12:23,670 --> 00:12:22,399
to my workspace and checked

334
00:12:27,430 --> 00:12:23,680
there's a i don't know if there are any

335
00:12:30,230 --> 00:12:27,440
pictures of this online but if you go um

336
00:12:32,069 --> 00:12:30,240
into the combat center on on a warship

337
00:12:34,230 --> 00:12:32,079
especially in aegis cruiser

338
00:12:35,750 --> 00:12:34,240
there are multiple bigs it's a darkened

339
00:12:38,550 --> 00:12:35,760
environment there are multiple big

340
00:12:40,790 --> 00:12:38,560
screens up there showing the radar pic

341
00:12:41,590 --> 00:12:40,800
the tactical picture

342
00:12:44,069 --> 00:12:41,600
and

343
00:12:45,750 --> 00:12:44,079
down where i work in the

344
00:12:48,310 --> 00:12:45,760
it's called ses

345
00:12:51,670 --> 00:12:48,320
ships signals exploitation center

346
00:12:53,670 --> 00:12:51,680
that's where the cryptology goes on

347
00:12:55,829 --> 00:12:53,680
we have a radar what i call a radar

348
00:12:57,829 --> 00:12:55,839
table sort of like a butcher block or an

349
00:12:59,670 --> 00:12:57,839
island in a kitchen if you will you

350
00:13:01,990 --> 00:12:59,680
stand over it

351
00:13:03,110 --> 00:13:02,000
and it's a round radar scope like you

352
00:13:04,470 --> 00:13:03,120
see on

353
00:13:06,550 --> 00:13:04,480
in the movies

354
00:13:08,389 --> 00:13:06,560
it's a representation it's the same data

355
00:13:09,829 --> 00:13:08,399
they're seeing up in the uh combat

356
00:13:11,990 --> 00:13:09,839
center except it's just not on a big

357
00:13:13,750 --> 00:13:12,000
screen big flat screen it's on a round

358
00:13:15,910 --> 00:13:13,760
radar scope

359
00:13:17,829 --> 00:13:15,920
and uh i looked down

360
00:13:19,590 --> 00:13:17,839
and no faster than this thing was moving

361
00:13:21,110 --> 00:13:19,600
which was

362
00:13:22,790 --> 00:13:21,120
you know

363
00:13:23,750 --> 00:13:22,800
couldn't have been more than 500 miles

364
00:13:25,269 --> 00:13:23,760
an hour

365
00:13:27,670 --> 00:13:25,279
probably more like

366
00:13:29,590 --> 00:13:27,680
300 350.

367
00:13:31,110 --> 00:13:29,600
it should have still been in the four to

368
00:13:32,310 --> 00:13:31,120
five minutes it took me to get back down

369
00:13:34,790 --> 00:13:32,320
there

370
00:13:36,389 --> 00:13:34,800
it should have still been on the radar

371
00:13:39,509 --> 00:13:36,399
you know what i'm saying one of our

372
00:13:40,870 --> 00:13:39,519
viewers says stealth high bl hybrid

373
00:13:42,310 --> 00:13:40,880
blimp

374
00:13:44,069 --> 00:13:42,320
i mean

375
00:13:45,670 --> 00:13:44,079
fastest blimp i've ever seen yeah i

376
00:13:47,509 --> 00:13:45,680
don't blame things go blimps go that

377
00:13:49,670 --> 00:13:47,519
fast all right so

378
00:13:51,509 --> 00:13:49,680
let's get into the book because like i

379
00:13:54,230 --> 00:13:51,519
said i'm very curious your takes so it

380
00:13:56,230 --> 00:13:54,240
starts out uh senator reid says and it's

381
00:13:57,350 --> 00:13:56,240
important because i know i never knew

382
00:13:59,829 --> 00:13:57,360
what he thought about any of the

383
00:14:01,269 --> 00:13:59,839
paranormal stuff i knew i mean he helped

384
00:14:03,350 --> 00:14:01,279
start the program and i knew that was

385
00:14:04,870 --> 00:14:03,360
part of it but in the book he says some

386
00:14:06,710 --> 00:14:04,880
of the scientific findings and this is

387
00:14:08,389 --> 00:14:06,720
from his forward

388
00:14:10,069 --> 00:14:08,399
some of the scientific findings you will

389
00:14:12,629 --> 00:14:10,079
read in this book may be hard for you to

390
00:14:14,710 --> 00:14:12,639
accept or comprehend

391
00:14:16,550 --> 00:14:14,720
i don't understand some of the science

392
00:14:19,430 --> 00:14:16,560
or know what to make of the paranormal

393
00:14:21,430 --> 00:14:19,440
occurrences the more we learn about uaps

394
00:14:23,670 --> 00:14:21,440
the more we don't know that is the key

395
00:14:25,430 --> 00:14:23,680
to it all the us government academics

396
00:14:28,069 --> 00:14:25,440
and industry leaders need to research

397
00:14:29,269 --> 00:14:28,079
uaps and i know you hate the plural oh

398
00:14:32,629 --> 00:14:29,279
i'm going to read that's why it's

399
00:14:35,350 --> 00:14:32,639
written uh the more we don't uh

400
00:14:36,870 --> 00:14:35,360
they need to research uap and related

401
00:14:38,870 --> 00:14:36,880
phenomena they also need to keep the

402
00:14:40,150 --> 00:14:38,880
public informed which is why journalists

403
00:14:41,829 --> 00:14:40,160
like george knapp reporting on the

404
00:14:44,069 --> 00:14:41,839
subject also play a vital role in

405
00:14:45,990 --> 00:14:44,079
fostering transparency the american

406
00:14:47,430 --> 00:14:46,000
people can handle the truth we could

407
00:14:48,790 --> 00:14:47,440
talk about that later whether or not we

408
00:14:49,990 --> 00:14:48,800
think they can handle it and then he

409
00:14:51,509 --> 00:14:50,000
talks about

410
00:14:52,790 --> 00:14:51,519
uh his religion which i've never really

411
00:14:54,710 --> 00:14:52,800
heard him talk about before and i've

412
00:14:57,110 --> 00:14:54,720
heard rumors and whispers and he says

413
00:14:58,949 --> 00:14:57,120
anyone who looks at mormonism

414
00:15:00,629 --> 00:14:58,959
at all understands that we believe there

415
00:15:03,030 --> 00:15:00,639
are other worlds

416
00:15:04,949 --> 00:15:03,040
reid told napa 2018 it's one of the

417
00:15:07,269 --> 00:15:04,959
reason people look askew at

418
00:15:09,430 --> 00:15:07,279
mormonism for a long time they ask are

419
00:15:11,750 --> 00:15:09,440
these people crazy talking about other

420
00:15:13,350 --> 00:15:11,760
worlds well joseph smith came up with

421
00:15:15,189 --> 00:15:13,360
this idea i think there's no question

422
00:15:17,350 --> 00:15:15,199
there are other worlds so yes my

423
00:15:19,030 --> 00:15:17,360
religious beliefs are compatible one

424
00:15:20,069 --> 00:15:19,040
hundred percent

425
00:15:21,750 --> 00:15:20,079
um

426
00:15:22,870 --> 00:15:21,760
i'm gonna just get into it quick quickly

427
00:15:23,990 --> 00:15:22,880
mike i'm gonna

428
00:15:26,470 --> 00:15:24,000
say that

429
00:15:27,590 --> 00:15:26,480
uh 2007. so james lutkatsky and you

430
00:15:29,749 --> 00:15:27,600
could add

431
00:15:31,189 --> 00:15:29,759
who is james like cascade no i don't i

432
00:15:33,030 --> 00:15:31,199
never heard of the defense warning

433
00:15:35,110 --> 00:15:33,040
office until keith basterfield did some

434
00:15:37,910 --> 00:15:35,120
research when we found he's the one that

435
00:15:39,670 --> 00:15:37,920
found uh lutkatsky's name uh what does

436
00:15:41,829 --> 00:15:39,680
the defense warning office do and what

437
00:15:43,749 --> 00:15:41,839
did let kasky do there

438
00:15:47,030 --> 00:15:43,759
well yeah

439
00:15:49,430 --> 00:15:47,040
within each of these agencies um

440
00:15:52,389 --> 00:15:49,440
they have directorates that focus on

441
00:15:54,870 --> 00:15:52,399
different aspects of the intelligence

442
00:15:56,870 --> 00:15:54,880
arenas that they that they are

443
00:15:58,710 --> 00:15:56,880
uh

444
00:16:01,269 --> 00:15:58,720
responsible for

445
00:16:02,710 --> 00:16:01,279
from a from a mission

446
00:16:03,060 --> 00:16:02,720
standpoint

447
00:16:04,310 --> 00:16:03,070
and

448
00:16:06,949 --> 00:16:04,320
[Music]

449
00:16:08,710 --> 00:16:06,959
i never worked at the dwo

450
00:16:10,310 --> 00:16:08,720
but

451
00:16:11,430 --> 00:16:10,320
if it's a warning office they're looking

452
00:16:17,829 --> 00:16:11,440
at

453
00:16:20,829 --> 00:16:17,839
growth and expansion

454
00:16:23,749 --> 00:16:20,839
of foreign military

455
00:16:25,749 --> 00:16:23,759
capabilities military power

456
00:16:28,550 --> 00:16:25,759
orders of battle orders of battle are

457
00:16:30,870 --> 00:16:28,560
things like pick a country

458
00:16:33,590 --> 00:16:30,880
how big's the air force

459
00:16:35,509 --> 00:16:33,600
how many what's its rank structure

460
00:16:37,829 --> 00:16:35,519
how many airplanes do they have what

461
00:16:39,829 --> 00:16:37,839
type do they have

462
00:16:41,829 --> 00:16:39,839
how big is their army how many tanks do

463
00:16:43,590 --> 00:16:41,839
they have do they have an amphibious

464
00:16:46,389 --> 00:16:43,600
capability to land on beaches or are

465
00:16:48,470 --> 00:16:46,399
they strictly land mobile you know do

466
00:16:51,189 --> 00:16:48,480
they have a navy things like that so the

467
00:16:52,550 --> 00:16:51,199
defense warning office

468
00:16:54,230 --> 00:16:52,560
it's my understanding that they're far

469
00:16:55,110 --> 00:16:54,240
more technical than that so they would

470
00:16:57,350 --> 00:16:55,120
be

471
00:17:01,749 --> 00:16:57,360
examining the state of the art

472
00:17:02,829 --> 00:17:01,759
of different categories of technology

473
00:17:05,429 --> 00:17:02,839
in his

474
00:17:07,669 --> 00:17:05,439
case physics scientific background you

475
00:17:09,669 --> 00:17:07,679
know you have

476
00:17:11,189 --> 00:17:09,679
you have

477
00:17:13,189 --> 00:17:11,199
organizations within some of these

478
00:17:14,710 --> 00:17:13,199
agencies

479
00:17:17,990 --> 00:17:14,720
that are doing

480
00:17:20,470 --> 00:17:18,000
similar in a lot of respects take the

481
00:17:23,829 --> 00:17:20,480
same sort of talent pools that you might

482
00:17:26,630 --> 00:17:23,839
find at spacex for just one example

483
00:17:28,630 --> 00:17:26,640
so these rocket engines that elon musk

484
00:17:30,710 --> 00:17:28,640
and his company are using

485
00:17:33,990 --> 00:17:30,720
they're a certain design they have a

486
00:17:37,990 --> 00:17:36,070
and they're used to do things that we're

487
00:17:40,950 --> 00:17:38,000
all aware of which is to put people onto

488
00:17:43,190 --> 00:17:40,960
the iss or launch satellites but

489
00:17:45,350 --> 00:17:43,200
other rocket engines are used for other

490
00:17:47,190 --> 00:17:45,360
purposes whether it's for missiles

491
00:17:48,710 --> 00:17:47,200
or icbms

492
00:17:50,470 --> 00:17:48,720
or what have you

493
00:17:51,830 --> 00:17:50,480
and so these people

494
00:17:54,310 --> 00:17:51,840
are studying

495
00:17:56,230 --> 00:17:54,320
the states of the art

496
00:17:57,990 --> 00:17:56,240
of different technologies

497
00:17:59,590 --> 00:17:58,000
to try to discern

498
00:18:00,390 --> 00:17:59,600
from afar

499
00:18:02,310 --> 00:18:00,400
because

500
00:18:04,230 --> 00:18:02,320
you can't be there they're not an open

501
00:18:06,549 --> 00:18:04,240
most countries that we're

502
00:18:09,270 --> 00:18:06,559
interested in gathering intelligence on

503
00:18:10,789 --> 00:18:09,280
are not open societies like ours so the

504
00:18:13,510 --> 00:18:10,799
way you

505
00:18:15,990 --> 00:18:13,520
gather intelligence is distantly right

506
00:18:17,190 --> 00:18:16,000
with sensors satellites human humans on

507
00:18:18,789 --> 00:18:17,200
the ground

508
00:18:20,710 --> 00:18:18,799
and so forth

509
00:18:22,870 --> 00:18:20,720
and they're uh if you're taking the

510
00:18:25,430 --> 00:18:22,880
aerospace example

511
00:18:26,870 --> 00:18:25,440
they might for example

512
00:18:28,390 --> 00:18:26,880
study

513
00:18:30,310 --> 00:18:28,400
flight paths

514
00:18:31,750 --> 00:18:30,320
of different aerospace vehicles whether

515
00:18:34,470 --> 00:18:31,760
it's a rocket

516
00:18:36,310 --> 00:18:34,480
or anything else to try to determine

517
00:18:39,430 --> 00:18:36,320
its range

518
00:18:41,110 --> 00:18:39,440
or its payload capability

519
00:18:43,750 --> 00:18:41,120
you can even learn

520
00:18:45,750 --> 00:18:43,760
by looking at certain spectral aspects

521
00:18:47,830 --> 00:18:45,760
of the of an exhaust

522
00:18:49,590 --> 00:18:47,840
from from say a rocket

523
00:18:50,710 --> 00:18:49,600
and determine

524
00:18:52,310 --> 00:18:50,720
the fuels

525
00:18:53,590 --> 00:18:52,320
it's using

526
00:18:55,510 --> 00:18:53,600
um

527
00:18:56,710 --> 00:18:55,520
so he's a really sure really really

528
00:18:59,270 --> 00:18:56,720
smart guy

529
00:19:00,150 --> 00:18:59,280
rocket scientist they really are

530
00:19:02,630 --> 00:19:00,160
um

531
00:19:04,490 --> 00:19:02,640
and there and there are pools of these

532
00:19:06,390 --> 00:19:04,500
types of talent that span

533
00:19:07,270 --> 00:19:06,400
[Music]

534
00:19:10,070 --> 00:19:07,280
people

535
00:19:11,029 --> 00:19:10,080
uh like you know akatsky and and and

536
00:19:13,750 --> 00:19:11,039
others

537
00:19:16,310 --> 00:19:13,760
from they have human geography experts

538
00:19:18,630 --> 00:19:16,320
they have a wide range of people

539
00:19:19,909 --> 00:19:18,640
and they're looking at different

540
00:19:21,029 --> 00:19:19,919
mission

541
00:19:21,990 --> 00:19:21,039
problems

542
00:19:23,190 --> 00:19:22,000
giving

543
00:19:24,950 --> 00:19:23,200
indications

544
00:19:26,870 --> 00:19:24,960
to commanders out in the field that are

545
00:19:29,110 --> 00:19:26,880
having to stay prepared for you know any

546
00:19:30,789 --> 00:19:29,120
eventuality

547
00:19:32,789 --> 00:19:30,799
okay i am gonna i'm gonna get on to what

548
00:19:33,669 --> 00:19:32,799
happened so 2007

549
00:19:35,190 --> 00:19:33,679
um

550
00:19:37,430 --> 00:19:35,200
so he's read he read hunt for the

551
00:19:39,029 --> 00:19:37,440
skinwalker which if anybody still hasn't

552
00:19:40,950 --> 00:19:39,039
read it read the book by george knapp

553
00:19:42,630 --> 00:19:40,960
and colin kelleher it's one of the best

554
00:19:44,310 --> 00:19:42,640
it's not just about skinwalker ranch

555
00:19:46,470 --> 00:19:44,320
they also cover

556
00:19:48,230 --> 00:19:46,480
opinions speculation about what ufos

557
00:19:49,830 --> 00:19:48,240
represent and it's a great latter half

558
00:19:51,510 --> 00:19:49,840
of the book i love the whole book um so

559
00:19:54,630 --> 00:19:51,520
he's reading hunt for the skinwalker in

560
00:19:56,470 --> 00:19:54,640
2007 he said he read it cover to cover

561
00:19:58,710 --> 00:19:56,480
and he was legitimately interested in

562
00:20:00,870 --> 00:19:58,720
this as a use as useful to the military

563
00:20:02,789 --> 00:20:00,880
and useful to my particular group which

564
00:20:05,510 --> 00:20:02,799
was looking at possible threats to new

565
00:20:06,630 --> 00:20:05,520
weapons systems that's what attracted my

566
00:20:08,789 --> 00:20:06,640
attention

567
00:20:10,549 --> 00:20:08,799
and he was surprised when he read it

568
00:20:12,070 --> 00:20:10,559
like a lot of people are although more

569
00:20:13,270 --> 00:20:12,080
people have not read the book i'm not

570
00:20:15,110 --> 00:20:13,280
sure why you have a whole group of

571
00:20:17,669 --> 00:20:15,120
scientists that robert bigelow put

572
00:20:19,830 --> 00:20:17,679
together uh at nids

573
00:20:22,470 --> 00:20:19,840
and they were studying some bizarre

574
00:20:23,669 --> 00:20:22,480
phenomena he did not expect to see that

575
00:20:25,750 --> 00:20:23,679
and he said it was like some of the

576
00:20:27,350 --> 00:20:25,760
phenomena should only exist in comic

577
00:20:29,430 --> 00:20:27,360
books and horror movies and if you read

578
00:20:31,430 --> 00:20:29,440
the book you'll see some of the some of

579
00:20:33,669 --> 00:20:31,440
the encounters that took place with you

580
00:20:35,190 --> 00:20:33,679
know giant wolves and

581
00:20:38,149 --> 00:20:35,200
other creatures

582
00:20:39,909 --> 00:20:38,159
and then 2007 he shares the book a hunt

583
00:20:41,029 --> 00:20:39,919
for the skin worker with a colleague of

584
00:20:42,789 --> 00:20:41,039
his

585
00:20:44,470 --> 00:20:42,799
axelrod who i don't think it's the guy's

586
00:20:46,950 --> 00:20:44,480
real name uh but

587
00:20:49,029 --> 00:20:46,960
so axelrod takes it to iraq

588
00:20:51,029 --> 00:20:49,039
goes into the green show into the green

589
00:20:52,870 --> 00:20:51,039
zone reads the book

590
00:20:54,870 --> 00:20:52,880
shares it with shares it with other

591
00:20:55,909 --> 00:20:54,880
intel and defense people who are in iraq

592
00:20:57,510 --> 00:20:55,919
and the green zone they're like hey

593
00:21:00,230 --> 00:20:57,520
check out this book it's a really great

594
00:21:02,549 --> 00:21:00,240
book and so he shares it

595
00:21:04,230 --> 00:21:02,559
and then 2007 june

596
00:21:05,909 --> 00:21:04,240
and a lot of it became the most popular

597
00:21:08,789 --> 00:21:05,919
book in the green zone according to

598
00:21:11,669 --> 00:21:08,799
axelrod so likowski uh

599
00:21:13,190 --> 00:21:11,679
writes a letter on the dia letterhead to

600
00:21:15,669 --> 00:21:13,200
bigelow and says hey i want to write i

601
00:21:16,710 --> 00:21:15,679
would love to i'd love to visit your

602
00:21:18,789 --> 00:21:16,720
ranch

603
00:21:20,710 --> 00:21:18,799
goes there

604
00:21:24,310 --> 00:21:20,720
meets at the

605
00:21:27,110 --> 00:21:24,320
ranch caretakers home with bigelow and

606
00:21:28,149 --> 00:21:27,120
the wife there was two two caretakers

607
00:21:29,270 --> 00:21:28,159
and they're sitting there and bigelow

608
00:21:32,710 --> 00:21:29,280
starts having this conversation with

609
00:21:34,149 --> 00:21:32,720
with the wife about finances

610
00:21:36,870 --> 00:21:34,159
lukaszki's like i shouldn't really be

611
00:21:38,230 --> 00:21:36,880
hearing this so he starts looking around

612
00:21:39,590 --> 00:21:38,240
checking out the lay of the land and he

613
00:21:40,710 --> 00:21:39,600
sees this

614
00:21:42,070 --> 00:21:40,720
object

615
00:21:43,830 --> 00:21:42,080
um

616
00:21:45,909 --> 00:21:43,840
i'll just i'll just read what he said on

617
00:21:48,870 --> 00:21:45,919
coast to coast he said

618
00:21:50,710 --> 00:21:48,880
it just appeared um

619
00:21:51,430 --> 00:21:50,720
i was it i went into a daze because he

620
00:21:52,710 --> 00:21:51,440
was

621
00:21:54,390 --> 00:21:52,720
trying not to pay attention to the

622
00:21:55,590 --> 00:21:54,400
conversation he goes i was in a daze

623
00:21:57,669 --> 00:21:55,600
looking around the room seeing what the

624
00:21:59,909 --> 00:21:57,679
lay the land was and then it appears

625
00:22:01,590 --> 00:21:59,919
floating in the kitchen quite distinct i

626
00:22:04,070 --> 00:22:01,600
mean i looked away from it and it

627
00:22:06,230 --> 00:22:04,080
maintained its position and allowed me

628
00:22:07,990 --> 00:22:06,240
i guess actively allowed me to come back

629
00:22:10,310 --> 00:22:08,000
and look at it and examine it more

630
00:22:13,029 --> 00:22:10,320
closely it was not a blurry vision it

631
00:22:15,270 --> 00:22:13,039
was not a speck in my eye it was there

632
00:22:17,430 --> 00:22:15,280
it was it was about 18 inches tall and

633
00:22:19,190 --> 00:22:17,440
18 inches wide floating in the middle of

634
00:22:21,990 --> 00:22:19,200
the kitchen and that kitchen is quite

635
00:22:23,590 --> 00:22:22,000
distinct you know it styles 1950 style

636
00:22:25,590 --> 00:22:23,600
so the colors of the tiles are quite

637
00:22:27,669 --> 00:22:25,600
distinct knapp says did it look like it

638
00:22:29,510 --> 00:22:27,679
just appeared likkatsuki is like it just

639
00:22:31,430 --> 00:22:29,520
appeared it just appeared it was very

640
00:22:33,270 --> 00:22:31,440
sharp now let me give you an exact

641
00:22:35,590 --> 00:22:33,280
description people said mobius strip and

642
00:22:37,029 --> 00:22:35,600
that's i shared on my article

643
00:22:38,710 --> 00:22:37,039
i think jeremy corbell said it was a

644
00:22:39,830 --> 00:22:38,720
mobius strip than other people and i

645
00:22:40,710 --> 00:22:39,840
guess he didn't like that because it

646
00:22:43,270 --> 00:22:40,720
wasn't

647
00:22:44,950 --> 00:22:43,280
exactly what he saw he said take a piece

648
00:22:46,390 --> 00:22:44,960
take a piece of spaghetti

649
00:22:48,230 --> 00:22:46,400
six inches long

650
00:22:50,070 --> 00:22:48,240
bunch it up and then let

651
00:22:51,270 --> 00:22:50,080
the pot the top part come out at a

652
00:22:53,909 --> 00:22:51,280
little angle

653
00:22:55,270 --> 00:22:53,919
uh he says and that the bottom part

654
00:22:57,750 --> 00:22:55,280
that's all bunched together was super

655
00:22:59,669 --> 00:22:57,760
clear he goes it was truncated uh it was

656
00:23:01,430 --> 00:22:59,679
a solid light yellow and it was

657
00:23:03,430 --> 00:23:01,440
surrounded by a different shade of

658
00:23:05,350 --> 00:23:03,440
yellow cloud so this part was like going

659
00:23:06,870 --> 00:23:05,360
into a yellow cloud so he's sitting

660
00:23:08,470 --> 00:23:06,880
there taking notes

661
00:23:10,630 --> 00:23:08,480
uh he said it looked like maybe a couple

662
00:23:11,990 --> 00:23:10,640
of minutes uh he recently had looked

663
00:23:13,909 --> 00:23:12,000
back at his original drawing because he

664
00:23:15,590 --> 00:23:13,919
wanted to remember the impact

665
00:23:17,950 --> 00:23:15,600
and then he said he compared it to

666
00:23:20,950 --> 00:23:17,960
tubular bells which is on my blog

667
00:23:23,270 --> 00:23:20,960
ufojoe.net uh tubular bells isn't uh

668
00:23:24,950 --> 00:23:23,280
related to the exorcist so people are

669
00:23:26,310 --> 00:23:24,960
like oh it's demonic

670
00:23:27,909 --> 00:23:26,320
well i don't know maybe anything was

671
00:23:29,590 --> 00:23:27,919
playing games i don't know he said it

672
00:23:31,190 --> 00:23:29,600
wasn't chrome it was yellow it was quite

673
00:23:33,430 --> 00:23:31,200
solid

674
00:23:35,110 --> 00:23:33,440
quite clear and then it got fuzzy as the

675
00:23:36,230 --> 00:23:35,120
droopy portion went into the cloud he

676
00:23:37,270 --> 00:23:36,240
goes and that was it there's nothing

677
00:23:38,710 --> 00:23:37,280
dramatic

678
00:23:41,110 --> 00:23:38,720
and then we had a discussion we walked

679
00:23:44,549 --> 00:23:41,120
over there about decorating

680
00:23:47,669 --> 00:23:44,559
and um he found out later jean the the

681
00:23:49,669 --> 00:23:47,679
female caretaker gene dietz said oh yeah

682
00:23:50,630 --> 00:23:49,679
that's my decorating style by the way

683
00:23:52,549 --> 00:23:50,640
though

684
00:23:54,950 --> 00:23:52,559
earlier in the day before you showed up

685
00:23:56,789 --> 00:23:54,960
a cross flew out across the

686
00:23:59,029 --> 00:23:56,799
off the wall she had a dozen crosses on

687
00:24:01,269 --> 00:23:59,039
the wall flew out of the bathroom

688
00:24:03,430 --> 00:24:01,279
horizontally into the wash basket on top

689
00:24:06,470 --> 00:24:03,440
of the washing machine and let katsuki

690
00:24:08,470 --> 00:24:06,480
goes so i'm thinking um

691
00:24:09,750 --> 00:24:08,480
he goes that's when we went back and we

692
00:24:11,350 --> 00:24:09,760
went right to that area where it

693
00:24:12,390 --> 00:24:11,360
happened and we took the rest of the

694
00:24:13,669 --> 00:24:12,400
tour

695
00:24:14,870 --> 00:24:13,679
uh so what are your thoughts on that

696
00:24:16,470 --> 00:24:14,880
michael i mean because i heard that

697
00:24:18,630 --> 00:24:16,480
story and for me i mean i've been at

698
00:24:20,470 --> 00:24:18,640
this so long i don't question somebody

699
00:24:22,549 --> 00:24:20,480
like him saw something like that and it

700
00:24:25,269 --> 00:24:22,559
changed everything because he took it

701
00:24:29,350 --> 00:24:25,279
as a sign that this was a demonstration

702
00:24:32,149 --> 00:24:30,149
well

703
00:24:34,470 --> 00:24:32,159
the first time i ever heard that heard

704
00:24:36,390 --> 00:24:34,480
his account of that reading in here i

705
00:24:38,470 --> 00:24:36,400
was pretty impressed that he had the

706
00:24:41,510 --> 00:24:38,480
presence of mine

707
00:24:45,269 --> 00:24:42,630
to sort of

708
00:24:48,070 --> 00:24:45,279
soak it all in and not

709
00:24:48,950 --> 00:24:48,080
i think most people would say

710
00:24:51,669 --> 00:24:48,960
you know

711
00:24:53,590 --> 00:24:51,679
hey hey try to get everyone else's

712
00:24:56,149 --> 00:24:53,600
attention in the room

713
00:24:57,190 --> 00:24:56,159
and point something like that out

714
00:24:59,510 --> 00:24:57,200
um

715
00:25:01,350 --> 00:24:59,520
how do you have the composure

716
00:25:05,190 --> 00:25:01,360
to um

717
00:25:06,470 --> 00:25:05,200
to sit there and analyze this

718
00:25:07,510 --> 00:25:06,480
in situ

719
00:25:10,630 --> 00:25:07,520
without

720
00:25:14,549 --> 00:25:10,640
becoming unnerved how do you have

721
00:25:16,950 --> 00:25:14,559
the ability to have structured thought

722
00:25:19,269 --> 00:25:16,960
from an analytical analytical mindset

723
00:25:20,390 --> 00:25:19,279
standpoint and uh

724
00:25:23,029 --> 00:25:20,400
and

725
00:25:26,230 --> 00:25:23,039
characterize something that to me sounds

726
00:25:28,789 --> 00:25:26,240
awfully otherworldly you know

727
00:25:30,149 --> 00:25:28,799
they're singing things just this morning

728
00:25:31,269 --> 00:25:30,159
i thought i saw

729
00:25:34,070 --> 00:25:31,279
a cat

730
00:25:36,149 --> 00:25:34,080
in my bedroom go by the door i was in

731
00:25:37,750 --> 00:25:36,159
the master bathroom i looked there was

732
00:25:39,510 --> 00:25:37,760
no cat there and

733
00:25:41,510 --> 00:25:39,520
i don't know what that was it was it was

734
00:25:43,669 --> 00:25:41,520
nothing right it happens to us all the

735
00:25:46,789 --> 00:25:43,679
time we think we see something

736
00:25:50,149 --> 00:25:46,799
um in his case he

737
00:25:52,630 --> 00:25:50,159
he describes seeing it looking away

738
00:25:54,830 --> 00:25:52,640
looking back confirming that he's not

739
00:25:58,390 --> 00:25:54,840
nuts

740
00:26:00,710 --> 00:25:58,400
um i think that says a lot about

741
00:26:02,390 --> 00:26:00,720
maybe who he is maybe he's the kind of

742
00:26:04,070 --> 00:26:02,400
one of the one of the kinds of people

743
00:26:07,110 --> 00:26:04,080
that you would want in the room with you

744
00:26:09,750 --> 00:26:07,120
when chaos unfolds

745
00:26:11,830 --> 00:26:09,760
obviously was able to uh

746
00:26:13,830 --> 00:26:11,840
to think in a structured way

747
00:26:15,029 --> 00:26:13,840
about what he was seeing

748
00:26:16,310 --> 00:26:15,039
uh

749
00:26:18,310 --> 00:26:16,320
i thought it was pretty interesting that

750
00:26:20,630 --> 00:26:18,320
he didn't get everybody else's attention

751
00:26:23,370 --> 00:26:20,640
immediately and sort of hey

752
00:26:24,549 --> 00:26:23,380
look look do you guys see this

753
00:26:26,230 --> 00:26:24,559
[Music]

754
00:26:28,070 --> 00:26:26,240
exactly exactly what i would have done i

755
00:26:30,310 --> 00:26:28,080
mean i would have said do you guys see

756
00:26:31,750 --> 00:26:30,320
exactly that's really i mean i don't

757
00:26:33,350 --> 00:26:31,760
know if it's if it would have been

758
00:26:35,269 --> 00:26:33,360
better obviously if more people had seen

759
00:26:37,110 --> 00:26:35,279
it who knows if they had turned around

760
00:26:38,950 --> 00:26:37,120
they maybe not have seen it you know

761
00:26:40,470 --> 00:26:38,960
because we know the phenomena

762
00:26:42,870 --> 00:26:40,480
apparently can make some people see

763
00:26:44,549 --> 00:26:42,880
things and some people not see things

764
00:26:45,909 --> 00:26:44,559
or as we'll talk about later some peace

765
00:26:48,630 --> 00:26:45,919
you know some people will come in as the

766
00:26:51,350 --> 00:26:48,640
second witness and it'll disappear

767
00:26:54,070 --> 00:26:51,360
well see that and that struck me too

768
00:26:55,669 --> 00:26:54,080
if you go back through the

769
00:26:58,070 --> 00:26:55,679
and of course i don't know every

770
00:27:00,870 --> 00:26:58,080
encounter that's been documented

771
00:27:03,430 --> 00:27:00,880
um but i'm just saying if you just

772
00:27:04,230 --> 00:27:03,440
if you're well read in the subject

773
00:27:06,390 --> 00:27:04,240
of

774
00:27:07,909 --> 00:27:06,400
ufo encounters and sightings and what

775
00:27:11,350 --> 00:27:07,919
have you

776
00:27:13,590 --> 00:27:11,360
there is an overwhelming abundance

777
00:27:16,390 --> 00:27:13,600
of of claims

778
00:27:19,510 --> 00:27:16,400
or evidence however you want to call it

779
00:27:22,470 --> 00:27:19,520
of of people multiple people

780
00:27:23,909 --> 00:27:22,480
at a singular event

781
00:27:27,110 --> 00:27:23,919
seeing

782
00:27:29,269 --> 00:27:27,120
different aspects of the same event or

783
00:27:30,630 --> 00:27:29,279
some not seeing it at all

784
00:27:31,990 --> 00:27:30,640
that is uh

785
00:27:34,149 --> 00:27:32,000
it's sort of a

786
00:27:36,630 --> 00:27:34,159
it's a trait i guess you know that's

787
00:27:39,029 --> 00:27:36,640
documented going way back

788
00:27:41,909 --> 00:27:39,039
in this phenomena

789
00:27:44,789 --> 00:27:41,919
or these phenomena um

790
00:27:46,549 --> 00:27:44,799
so it fits from that perspective

791
00:27:49,110 --> 00:27:46,559
if you're trying to trying to match it

792
00:27:51,269 --> 00:27:49,120
up to the history of this of this entire

793
00:27:54,549 --> 00:27:51,279
uh

794
00:27:57,669 --> 00:27:56,070
if it's how it unfolds to different

795
00:28:00,230 --> 00:27:57,679
different groups and i'll be i'll be

796
00:28:01,669 --> 00:28:00,240
honest i mean i didn't know it was that

797
00:28:03,590 --> 00:28:01,679
prevalent until

798
00:28:06,470 --> 00:28:03,600
i heard eric dr eric davis talk about on

799
00:28:09,110 --> 00:28:06,480
coast to coast saying he said every ufo

800
00:28:11,510 --> 00:28:09,120
every ufo encounter is accompanied by

801
00:28:12,789 --> 00:28:11,520
poltergeist activities like every ufo

802
00:28:14,630 --> 00:28:12,799
encounter and i know people are like

803
00:28:16,389 --> 00:28:14,640
well i had a ufo encounter i didn't have

804
00:28:18,389 --> 00:28:16,399
any poltergeist activity

805
00:28:19,350 --> 00:28:18,399
but when you read the book

806
00:28:25,830 --> 00:28:19,360
it is

807
00:28:28,389 --> 00:28:25,840
encounters with either ufos or orbs

808
00:28:31,029 --> 00:28:28,399
to have this hitchhiker effect where you

809
00:28:32,950 --> 00:28:31,039
take something home with you and

810
00:28:34,950 --> 00:28:32,960
one of the people who

811
00:28:36,630 --> 00:28:34,960
was hired early on or he was part of i'm

812
00:28:38,710 --> 00:28:36,640
not sure exactly if he was part of i

813
00:28:41,190 --> 00:28:38,720
think he was part of dia and they gave

814
00:28:43,669 --> 00:28:41,200
him the name jonathan axelrod

815
00:28:45,510 --> 00:28:43,679
so he was a senior aerospace engineer in

816
00:28:47,750 --> 00:28:45,520
naval intelligence

817
00:28:49,830 --> 00:28:47,760
and he was the one who interviewed

818
00:28:51,909 --> 00:28:49,840
pilots raider operators and other people

819
00:28:53,909 --> 00:28:51,919
on the nimitz and princeton in 2009

820
00:28:55,750 --> 00:28:53,919
which i i always thought it was atip but

821
00:28:56,710 --> 00:28:55,760
it was awesome that did that

822
00:28:58,789 --> 00:28:56,720
um

823
00:29:00,149 --> 00:28:58,799
well let's just start right there so

824
00:29:01,830 --> 00:29:00,159
and i'll get to axelrod and what

825
00:29:04,389 --> 00:29:01,840
happened with him and his family we

826
00:29:07,190 --> 00:29:04,399
talked about douglas curt

827
00:29:09,110 --> 00:29:07,200
kurtz i think uh kirth kirth so he was a

828
00:29:11,029 --> 00:29:09,120
lieutenant colonel in the marines he was

829
00:29:14,389 --> 00:29:11,039
flying

830
00:29:16,630 --> 00:29:14,399
in 2004 or november 14th

831
00:29:18,149 --> 00:29:16,640
he's told to check out this one area and

832
00:29:20,470 --> 00:29:18,159
they're like yeah just go check this out

833
00:29:21,750 --> 00:29:20,480
he goes out flies and then he sees

834
00:29:23,909 --> 00:29:21,760
white water

835
00:29:27,190 --> 00:29:23,919
and if you want to tell the rest of the

836
00:29:28,789 --> 00:29:27,200
the what's the word serendip serendipity

837
00:29:30,070 --> 00:29:28,799
the synchronicity that happened with

838
00:29:32,310 --> 00:29:30,080
kurth

839
00:29:33,909 --> 00:29:32,320
well yeah i mean if you um

840
00:29:35,669 --> 00:29:33,919
i think i shot you a little screenshot

841
00:29:38,510 --> 00:29:35,679
you know that's from the uh the

842
00:29:41,350 --> 00:29:38,520
scientific coalition of the apology

843
00:29:42,950 --> 00:29:41,360
report uh which is a they call it a

844
00:29:45,029 --> 00:29:42,960
forensics report right and so it's

845
00:29:48,149 --> 00:29:45,039
describing so my question was where did

846
00:29:51,029 --> 00:29:48,159
kirth come from if we know for a fact

847
00:29:53,590 --> 00:29:51,039
based on fravor and dietrich

848
00:29:54,950 --> 00:29:53,600
um and others

849
00:29:56,870 --> 00:29:54,960
on the day

850
00:30:00,310 --> 00:29:56,880
we know that there were only

851
00:30:02,310 --> 00:30:00,320
two f-18s in the in the encounter

852
00:30:04,070 --> 00:30:02,320
where they actively

853
00:30:05,669 --> 00:30:04,080
maneuvered with it

854
00:30:08,470 --> 00:30:05,679
so that was fravor

855
00:30:10,070 --> 00:30:08,480
and his wingman dietrich

856
00:30:12,470 --> 00:30:10,080
okay then we know that there was a

857
00:30:15,510 --> 00:30:12,480
second flight

858
00:30:17,430 --> 00:30:15,520
that occurred after fraber returned and

859
00:30:19,590 --> 00:30:17,440
he's in the ready room

860
00:30:22,870 --> 00:30:19,600
i believe when they're um

861
00:30:25,350 --> 00:30:22,880
when he's taking off his harness and

862
00:30:26,950 --> 00:30:25,360
everything after his flight and his

863
00:30:28,149 --> 00:30:26,960
then the replacement flight is about to

864
00:30:30,070 --> 00:30:28,159
go out

865
00:30:31,669 --> 00:30:30,080
and he tells this guy basically make

866
00:30:33,909 --> 00:30:31,679
sure he's got some tapes in his system

867
00:30:35,269 --> 00:30:33,919
so he can record this

868
00:30:36,789 --> 00:30:35,279
and so

869
00:30:38,710 --> 00:30:36,799
that's the second flight that goes out

870
00:30:39,510 --> 00:30:38,720
yeah that's chad underwood

871
00:30:41,430 --> 00:30:39,520
right

872
00:30:43,750 --> 00:30:41,440
so those were the only two so this kurth

873
00:30:45,510 --> 00:30:43,760
guy um

874
00:30:48,389 --> 00:30:45,520
when when kurth

875
00:30:50,710 --> 00:30:48,399
is he is apparently on us on a totally

876
00:30:52,630 --> 00:30:50,720
separate mission that i've i'm pretty

877
00:30:54,470 --> 00:30:52,640
familiar with i've seen them and it's

878
00:30:58,789 --> 00:30:54,480
almost how i got my very first flight

879
00:31:00,630 --> 00:30:58,799
off of an aircraft carrier back in 1990

880
00:31:03,350 --> 00:31:00,640
there was a

881
00:31:04,870 --> 00:31:03,360
an aircraft that had been repaired

882
00:31:06,870 --> 00:31:04,880
and so they're going to go up and do a

883
00:31:09,029 --> 00:31:06,880
functional check flight

884
00:31:11,029 --> 00:31:09,039
and it's a short duration mission so

885
00:31:12,470 --> 00:31:11,039
they launch in an f-18

886
00:31:15,029 --> 00:31:12,480
and i don't know what the problem or the

887
00:31:16,310 --> 00:31:15,039
mechanical issue was or maybe electronic

888
00:31:17,750 --> 00:31:16,320
issue on the aircraft but it had been

889
00:31:18,389 --> 00:31:17,760
repaired and so they're just going to go

890
00:31:19,990 --> 00:31:18,399
up

891
00:31:22,230 --> 00:31:20,000
and check it out they're going to take

892
00:31:24,549 --> 00:31:22,240
it for a test drive so he has very

893
00:31:25,990 --> 00:31:24,559
little fuel by comparison to a regular

894
00:31:27,669 --> 00:31:26,000
mission aircraft that's going to go up

895
00:31:29,190 --> 00:31:27,679
for a couple hours

896
00:31:32,870 --> 00:31:29,200
and they take off and while he's up

897
00:31:34,789 --> 00:31:32,880
there apparently he's the fifth element

898
00:31:37,430 --> 00:31:34,799
he's the fifth

899
00:31:39,750 --> 00:31:37,440
uh element of this tic tac sighting so

900
00:31:41,669 --> 00:31:39,760
there's fraver and his wingman then

901
00:31:44,549 --> 00:31:41,679
there's underwood and the other aircraft

902
00:31:46,789 --> 00:31:44,559
with him that's four so his so cursed

903
00:31:48,470 --> 00:31:46,799
aircraft is a fifth aircraft that

904
00:31:50,870 --> 00:31:48,480
actually was up before the rest of these

905
00:31:52,549 --> 00:31:50,880
guys i think it said it was around 2 pm

906
00:31:54,070 --> 00:31:52,559
in the afternoon

907
00:31:55,590 --> 00:31:54,080
and he's just out there on a functional

908
00:31:58,389 --> 00:31:55,600
check flight

909
00:32:00,070 --> 00:31:58,399
and the princeton calls up

910
00:32:02,310 --> 00:32:00,080
it's another guy it's an operations

911
00:32:04,870 --> 00:32:02,320
specialist it's not kevin day

912
00:32:07,190 --> 00:32:04,880
somebody working perhaps with kevin day

913
00:32:08,230 --> 00:32:07,200
but in the same in the same combat

914
00:32:11,110 --> 00:32:08,240
center

915
00:32:13,909 --> 00:32:11,120
and directs him to this radar target and

916
00:32:15,350 --> 00:32:13,919
apparently he gets within about 15 miles

917
00:32:17,830 --> 00:32:15,360
and

918
00:32:20,789 --> 00:32:17,840
all he sees is a disturbance

919
00:32:24,310 --> 00:32:20,799
down on the water of roiling water in an

920
00:32:26,630 --> 00:32:24,320
otherwise very calm and placid ocean

921
00:32:29,269 --> 00:32:26,640
it's almost like maybe lake water very

922
00:32:31,110 --> 00:32:29,279
low wind very low sea state and from a

923
00:32:32,870 --> 00:32:31,120
distance of about 15 miles in a clear

924
00:32:35,110 --> 00:32:32,880
day that's that's nothing

925
00:32:35,990 --> 00:32:35,120
as far as visibility so he was able to

926
00:32:37,750 --> 00:32:36,000
see

927
00:32:39,909 --> 00:32:37,760
according to his claim

928
00:32:41,029 --> 00:32:39,919
this roiling water and then they told

929
00:32:42,630 --> 00:32:41,039
him

930
00:32:44,310 --> 00:32:42,640
to basically abort the previous

931
00:32:45,909 --> 00:32:44,320
instructions and because there was

932
00:32:47,830 --> 00:32:45,919
another flight

933
00:32:49,750 --> 00:32:47,840
headed there to check it out

934
00:32:52,549 --> 00:32:49,760
and apparently he saw the other flight

935
00:32:55,350 --> 00:32:52,559
on his own radar so he saw fravor and

936
00:32:57,590 --> 00:32:55,360
dietrich's f-18s headed towards that

937
00:32:59,350 --> 00:32:57,600
target when he turned away and came back

938
00:33:00,310 --> 00:32:59,360
to land

939
00:33:02,310 --> 00:33:00,320
i just thought it was interesting

940
00:33:04,149 --> 00:33:02,320
because in none of the tv shows none of

941
00:33:06,389 --> 00:33:04,159
the interviews that i've seen of fravor

942
00:33:08,230 --> 00:33:06,399
or dietrich or even underwood none of

943
00:33:10,870 --> 00:33:08,240
them talk about kurth

944
00:33:12,470 --> 00:33:10,880
and then the serendipity of it is is

945
00:33:14,630 --> 00:33:12,480
when he was being

946
00:33:16,630 --> 00:33:14,640
interviewed by uh

947
00:33:19,110 --> 00:33:16,640
you know for bass

948
00:33:21,669 --> 00:33:19,120
uh i guess for ned's right no it was

949
00:33:23,590 --> 00:33:21,679
best so 2004 that's right tic tac

950
00:33:25,110 --> 00:33:23,600
happens and then 2008 they get the

951
00:33:26,630 --> 00:33:25,120
contract and then kelleher starts

952
00:33:28,710 --> 00:33:26,640
interviewing people and the first person

953
00:33:30,549 --> 00:33:28,720
kelleher who's the first hire

954
00:33:33,430 --> 00:33:30,559
the second hire is the first person he

955
00:33:35,830 --> 00:33:33,440
interviews is kirth happens to be kurt

956
00:33:38,710 --> 00:33:35,840
who happens to have been the guy

957
00:33:40,870 --> 00:33:38,720
that was actually on scene first with

958
00:33:42,630 --> 00:33:40,880
the tic-tac and they did not know that

959
00:33:44,710 --> 00:33:42,640
as far nobody has said they knew that

960
00:33:46,470 --> 00:33:44,720
kurth had that happened to him so it

961
00:33:48,950 --> 00:33:46,480
just came up at the end of the interview

962
00:33:50,630 --> 00:33:48,960
he's like oh great interview by the way

963
00:33:53,029 --> 00:33:50,640
do you know about the tic-tac incident

964
00:33:54,630 --> 00:33:53,039
in 2004 and like i get to see keller

965
00:33:56,149 --> 00:33:54,640
saying the what

966
00:33:57,990 --> 00:33:56,159
i mean that started everything it's like

967
00:33:59,190 --> 00:33:58,000
yeah serendipity it's like what are the

968
00:33:59,990 --> 00:33:59,200
chances

969
00:34:01,909 --> 00:34:00,000
well

970
00:34:05,269 --> 00:34:01,919
so i've had this happen to me i've been

971
00:34:07,430 --> 00:34:05,279
in a football stadium of 100 000 people

972
00:34:10,310 --> 00:34:07,440
and someone tapped me on the shoulder

973
00:34:11,669 --> 00:34:10,320
and asked if i am who i am ask me if i'm

974
00:34:13,190 --> 00:34:11,679
my guy

975
00:34:14,710 --> 00:34:13,200
and i turn around and i say yes and they

976
00:34:17,109 --> 00:34:14,720
say well so-and-so is asking i turn

977
00:34:18,550 --> 00:34:17,119
around is somebody from my hometown 35

978
00:34:20,950 --> 00:34:18,560
40 years ago

979
00:34:23,270 --> 00:34:20,960
crazy

980
00:34:24,550 --> 00:34:23,280
basically two rows behind me out of 100

981
00:34:27,430 --> 00:34:24,560
something thousand people what are the

982
00:34:29,349 --> 00:34:27,440
odds um so i i just wonder though if you

983
00:34:32,550 --> 00:34:29,359
got all these characters in a room

984
00:34:34,629 --> 00:34:32,560
fraver kurth dietrich killer her

985
00:34:37,349 --> 00:34:34,639
and you you asked i mean how did how did

986
00:34:40,950 --> 00:34:37,359
kurt's resume uh arrive on the desk in

987
00:34:43,909 --> 00:34:40,960
the first place how did he know to apply

988
00:34:46,470 --> 00:34:43,919
did i miss that in the uh

989
00:34:48,710 --> 00:34:46,480
i don't i don't think they mentioned how

990
00:34:51,349 --> 00:34:48,720
i i know there was a

991
00:34:53,990 --> 00:34:51,359
request for proposal um but i don't know

992
00:34:55,589 --> 00:34:54,000
how they advertised for people for bass

993
00:34:57,030 --> 00:34:55,599
i don't know uh

994
00:34:58,069 --> 00:34:57,040
where that was put out so yeah that's

995
00:35:00,470 --> 00:34:58,079
something i would like to know i'm

996
00:35:03,589 --> 00:35:00,480
curious i could tell us how much of a

997
00:35:05,750 --> 00:35:03,599
serendipitous situation it was yeah so

998
00:35:07,510 --> 00:35:05,760
if you think about it he's he's uh

999
00:35:08,630 --> 00:35:07,520
he's uh he's obviously kurt's obviously

1000
00:35:10,069 --> 00:35:08,640
retired

1001
00:35:12,310 --> 00:35:10,079
he's very senior

1002
00:35:13,109 --> 00:35:12,320
right so that matches the fact that

1003
00:35:14,870 --> 00:35:13,119
they're

1004
00:35:17,190 --> 00:35:14,880
that he's talking about at some point

1005
00:35:19,750 --> 00:35:17,200
you learned that he was retired

1006
00:35:21,349 --> 00:35:19,760
at lieutenant colonel rank

1007
00:35:24,150 --> 00:35:21,359
you don't just get that after a couple

1008
00:35:26,230 --> 00:35:24,160
of years of being in the marine corps

1009
00:35:27,190 --> 00:35:26,240
so he's retired

1010
00:35:28,950 --> 00:35:27,200
and

1011
00:35:30,550 --> 00:35:28,960
like so many

1012
00:35:32,069 --> 00:35:30,560
folks that were in the military with

1013
00:35:32,870 --> 00:35:32,079
high level clearances regardless of the

1014
00:35:34,790 --> 00:35:32,880
job

1015
00:35:35,750 --> 00:35:34,800
he's probably and obviously if he worked

1016
00:35:38,069 --> 00:35:35,760
for them

1017
00:35:39,670 --> 00:35:38,079
uh doing what they were doing he's still

1018
00:35:42,470 --> 00:35:39,680
cleared

1019
00:35:46,630 --> 00:35:44,870
you have to you know you just don't read

1020
00:35:48,710 --> 00:35:46,640
that in the back of the the san

1021
00:35:51,670 --> 00:35:48,720
francisco newspaper or what pick a

1022
00:35:53,349 --> 00:35:51,680
newspaper for you know jobs in the jobs

1023
00:35:55,750 --> 00:35:53,359
posted section

1024
00:35:57,990 --> 00:35:55,760
how did he how did his resume land on

1025
00:35:59,510 --> 00:35:58,000
keller's desk that that's i'm really

1026
00:36:01,190 --> 00:35:59,520
curious to find that i'll yeah i will

1027
00:36:02,630 --> 00:36:01,200
try to find out um

1028
00:36:04,230 --> 00:36:02,640
so for people

1029
00:36:06,870 --> 00:36:04,240
who want to market in your calendar as

1030
00:36:09,990 --> 00:36:06,880
an anniversary every day september 22nd

1031
00:36:11,990 --> 00:36:10,000
2008 so september 20 september 22nd best

1032
00:36:13,430 --> 00:36:12,000
was awarded the contract and there are

1033
00:36:16,150 --> 00:36:13,440
still people out there that saying it

1034
00:36:19,430 --> 00:36:16,160
was a it was it was a sweetheart deal

1035
00:36:21,829 --> 00:36:19,440
from reed to his constituent uh robert

1036
00:36:23,270 --> 00:36:21,839
bigelow bigelow who had donated to his

1037
00:36:24,829 --> 00:36:23,280
campaign over the years and i and i've

1038
00:36:27,349 --> 00:36:24,839
said it from day one i think that's

1039
00:36:29,030 --> 00:36:27,359
preposterous that you have somebody who

1040
00:36:31,270 --> 00:36:29,040
has an experience

1041
00:36:32,950 --> 00:36:31,280
on your ranch

1042
00:36:34,790 --> 00:36:32,960
what company and there were three people

1043
00:36:36,710 --> 00:36:34,800
three other aerospace companies that

1044
00:36:38,950 --> 00:36:36,720
looked into it nobody else made a bid

1045
00:36:41,190 --> 00:36:38,960
except bigelow it's like who else would

1046
00:36:43,270 --> 00:36:41,200
be the perfect organization

1047
00:36:45,829 --> 00:36:43,280
and people who know who already did it

1048
00:36:47,750 --> 00:36:45,839
with nids to study this so for me it's

1049
00:36:49,589 --> 00:36:47,760
like it's obvious and bigelow doesn't do

1050
00:36:51,349 --> 00:36:49,599
it for the money reid knew he wasn't

1051
00:36:52,710 --> 00:36:51,359
doing it for the money bigelow is

1052
00:36:54,470 --> 00:36:52,720
obsessed with this and passionate about

1053
00:36:56,470 --> 00:36:54,480
it as much as we are and he has the

1054
00:36:59,190 --> 00:36:56,480
money to do it and then so they get the

1055
00:37:01,589 --> 00:36:59,200
contract and i i'm sure i assume you

1056
00:37:03,349 --> 00:37:01,599
agree with that but

1057
00:37:04,790 --> 00:37:03,359
it's amazing what lakoski did uh

1058
00:37:06,470 --> 00:37:04,800
latkatsky's like

1059
00:37:08,069 --> 00:37:06,480
he had to do a complete sweep of

1060
00:37:10,950 --> 00:37:08,079
everything counterintelligence sweep

1061
00:37:12,870 --> 00:37:10,960
because he did more than just manage uh

1062
00:37:14,950 --> 00:37:12,880
conducted a sweep on all the contractor

1063
00:37:17,349 --> 00:37:14,960
offices meeting locations uh the

1064
00:37:18,870 --> 00:37:17,359
contractor owned building uh he helped

1065
00:37:19,990 --> 00:37:18,880
bass turn one of the buildings into a

1066
00:37:21,349 --> 00:37:20,000
skiff

1067
00:37:23,109 --> 00:37:21,359
they were gonna they were gonna do that

1068
00:37:24,630 --> 00:37:23,119
but it wasn't financially feasible so

1069
00:37:27,589 --> 00:37:24,640
bigelow and bass had to buy another

1070
00:37:30,150 --> 00:37:27,599
building that was turned into a skiff uh

1071
00:37:32,470 --> 00:37:30,160
lakoski helped get the leadership uh

1072
00:37:34,069 --> 00:37:32,480
top secrets uh sei clearances and

1073
00:37:36,550 --> 00:37:34,079
everybody everybody else had a secret

1074
00:37:38,150 --> 00:37:36,560
clearance and ultimately more than 75

1075
00:37:40,069 --> 00:37:38,160
contractor personnel

1076
00:37:42,390 --> 00:37:40,079
performed exotic aerospace-based

1077
00:37:44,630 --> 00:37:42,400
research and several hundred part-time

1078
00:37:46,470 --> 00:37:44,640
personnel conducted field work

1079
00:37:49,910 --> 00:37:46,480
and they had a multi-million database to

1080
00:37:52,150 --> 00:37:49,920
store contract research data also keller

1081
00:37:54,550 --> 00:37:52,160
said he interviewed 300 people in the

1082
00:37:56,069 --> 00:37:54,560
first six months online and then 100

1083
00:37:58,150 --> 00:37:56,079
people in person so they really got

1084
00:38:00,069 --> 00:37:58,160
going quickly you know how government is

1085
00:38:01,910 --> 00:38:00,079
how how amazing is it what they were

1086
00:38:04,550 --> 00:38:01,920
able to do in two years and just get off

1087
00:38:07,829 --> 00:38:04,560
from the ground running like that well

1088
00:38:11,109 --> 00:38:09,109
so that that

1089
00:38:14,870 --> 00:38:11,119
it's pretty easy actually i was just

1090
00:38:16,550 --> 00:38:14,880
looking here i wanted to find out um

1091
00:38:19,670 --> 00:38:16,560
it talks about this in the book the

1092
00:38:21,829 --> 00:38:19,680
website called fed biz ops

1093
00:38:23,510 --> 00:38:21,839
i've actually used fez fed biz ops it's

1094
00:38:24,150 --> 00:38:23,520
called something else now

1095
00:38:25,270 --> 00:38:24,160
it's um

1096
00:38:26,470 --> 00:38:25,280
[Music]

1097
00:38:27,990 --> 00:38:26,480
looks like there's a bunch of different

1098
00:38:30,550 --> 00:38:28,000
ones but

1099
00:38:32,470 --> 00:38:30,560
what is fed biz ops number one so so

1100
00:38:35,109 --> 00:38:32,480
let's let's back up a little bit when

1101
00:38:37,190 --> 00:38:35,119
they floated this uh request for

1102
00:38:38,790 --> 00:38:37,200
proposals it was done according to a

1103
00:38:41,109 --> 00:38:38,800
couple of different sources this book

1104
00:38:43,109 --> 00:38:41,119
and uh hal put off talking about how

1105
00:38:45,190 --> 00:38:43,119
this contract was floated it was what

1106
00:38:47,109 --> 00:38:45,200
they called a broad area announcement in

1107
00:38:48,470 --> 00:38:47,119
other words it wasn't

1108
00:38:49,829 --> 00:38:48,480
you have you can have different ways

1109
00:38:52,310 --> 00:38:49,839
that the government

1110
00:38:53,589 --> 00:38:52,320
puts out a request for proposals so it

1111
00:38:54,550 --> 00:38:53,599
all starts with the government having a

1112
00:38:56,550 --> 00:38:54,560
need

1113
00:38:58,150 --> 00:38:56,560
what they call requirements

1114
00:38:59,589 --> 00:38:58,160
and they're gonna they're gonna ask for

1115
00:39:03,430 --> 00:38:59,599
proposals

1116
00:39:05,589 --> 00:39:03,440
contractors or they can come from teams

1117
00:39:08,150 --> 00:39:05,599
of contractors okay

1118
00:39:09,750 --> 00:39:08,160
and the proposal request

1119
00:39:11,109 --> 00:39:09,760
that's put out by the government in

1120
00:39:13,829 --> 00:39:11,119
their announcement

1121
00:39:15,910 --> 00:39:13,839
is going to have an entire list of

1122
00:39:17,750 --> 00:39:15,920
requirements that range from the type of

1123
00:39:18,950 --> 00:39:17,760
people that should be on there to the

1124
00:39:20,630 --> 00:39:18,960
technical

1125
00:39:22,870 --> 00:39:20,640
backgrounds they should have

1126
00:39:25,510 --> 00:39:22,880
and and it's going to describe what the

1127
00:39:27,750 --> 00:39:25,520
government is needing

1128
00:39:29,270 --> 00:39:27,760
and so you can write those

1129
00:39:31,750 --> 00:39:29,280
request

1130
00:39:33,270 --> 00:39:31,760
four proposals in those broad area

1131
00:39:35,109 --> 00:39:33,280
announcements

1132
00:39:37,190 --> 00:39:35,119
if you know

1133
00:39:40,710 --> 00:39:37,200
of some conveniences

1134
00:39:41,990 --> 00:39:40,720
for sake of like say region or location

1135
00:39:43,990 --> 00:39:42,000
or

1136
00:39:47,349 --> 00:39:44,000
technical capability of a certain

1137
00:39:50,069 --> 00:39:47,359
company or a certain team of companies

1138
00:39:51,910 --> 00:39:50,079
that you're already aware of

1139
00:39:54,150 --> 00:39:51,920
i'll just put it this way it's not

1140
00:39:56,790 --> 00:39:54,160
unheard of for the government to write a

1141
00:39:59,270 --> 00:39:56,800
broad area announcement or a request for

1142
00:40:01,829 --> 00:39:59,280
proposals an rfp

1143
00:40:03,109 --> 00:40:01,839
that is tailored

1144
00:40:05,910 --> 00:40:03,119
to

1145
00:40:06,630 --> 00:40:05,920
rule in and rule out

1146
00:40:08,870 --> 00:40:06,640
the

1147
00:40:11,190 --> 00:40:08,880
prospective participants

1148
00:40:13,270 --> 00:40:11,200
that are going to bid on it right

1149
00:40:15,270 --> 00:40:13,280
so you can make it

1150
00:40:17,430 --> 00:40:15,280
you can write it in such a way

1151
00:40:18,390 --> 00:40:17,440
that it's almost

1152
00:40:20,390 --> 00:40:18,400
um

1153
00:40:22,230 --> 00:40:20,400
it's all it's an obvious home run for

1154
00:40:24,150 --> 00:40:22,240
certain companies that want to go for it

1155
00:40:26,470 --> 00:40:24,160
and try to apply you know and submit a

1156
00:40:28,309 --> 00:40:26,480
proposal

1157
00:40:29,270 --> 00:40:28,319
and it's obviously going to weed others

1158
00:40:30,630 --> 00:40:29,280
out

1159
00:40:33,270 --> 00:40:30,640
it may be

1160
00:40:35,109 --> 00:40:33,280
from a manpower perspective that some

1161
00:40:37,190 --> 00:40:35,119
small companies

1162
00:40:39,109 --> 00:40:37,200
can't participate but the point i'm

1163
00:40:41,750 --> 00:40:39,119
getting to is that

1164
00:40:43,030 --> 00:40:41,760
i do not doubt at all i would not be

1165
00:40:45,510 --> 00:40:43,040
surprised at all

1166
00:40:48,309 --> 00:40:45,520
that this broad area announcement

1167
00:40:49,829 --> 00:40:48,319
was given the fact given the senators

1168
00:40:50,710 --> 00:40:49,839
that were involved

1169
00:40:52,790 --> 00:40:50,720
given

1170
00:40:54,309 --> 00:40:52,800
where the phenomena

1171
00:40:56,069 --> 00:40:54,319
had had been

1172
00:40:58,309 --> 00:40:56,079
observed

1173
00:41:00,309 --> 00:40:58,319
previously and what was known in the

1174
00:41:03,589 --> 00:41:00,319
community about this stuff

1175
00:41:04,710 --> 00:41:03,599
that this rfp was written in such a way

1176
00:41:06,230 --> 00:41:04,720
that

1177
00:41:07,990 --> 00:41:06,240
maybe a very small handful of

1178
00:41:10,150 --> 00:41:08,000
contractors including

1179
00:41:13,030 --> 00:41:10,160
bigelow's company

1180
00:41:15,510 --> 00:41:13,040
would have been best suited to submit a

1181
00:41:18,390 --> 00:41:15,520
proposal for it okay

1182
00:41:20,230 --> 00:41:18,400
and because of you tailoring

1183
00:41:22,309 --> 00:41:20,240
or customizing that request for

1184
00:41:23,190 --> 00:41:22,319
proposals with certain requirements in

1185
00:41:25,510 --> 00:41:23,200
there

1186
00:41:28,470 --> 00:41:25,520
then those companies that you're sort of

1187
00:41:31,109 --> 00:41:28,480
tailoring it for

1188
00:41:34,390 --> 00:41:31,119
they're going to naturally already have

1189
00:41:37,430 --> 00:41:34,400
at least a straw man if you will or a

1190
00:41:40,950 --> 00:41:37,440
sort of a skeleton of capabilities from

1191
00:41:42,390 --> 00:41:40,960
people buildings and technologies that's

1192
00:41:44,470 --> 00:41:42,400
going to allow them

1193
00:41:45,910 --> 00:41:44,480
to quickly take the money that's made

1194
00:41:49,430 --> 00:41:45,920
available by the government once the

1195
00:41:52,550 --> 00:41:49,440
contract is awarded and go hire people

1196
00:41:54,870 --> 00:41:52,560
and get on the job and produce results

1197
00:41:57,270 --> 00:41:54,880
and as a matter of fact

1198
00:41:58,790 --> 00:41:57,280
in those broad area announcements and

1199
00:42:01,990 --> 00:41:58,800
and rfps

1200
00:42:03,349 --> 00:42:02,000
it's going to have a probably milestones

1201
00:42:04,470 --> 00:42:03,359
in there

1202
00:42:05,750 --> 00:42:04,480
and they're going to be probably

1203
00:42:08,470 --> 00:42:05,760
incremental

1204
00:42:10,630 --> 00:42:08,480
so by month or six month increments or a

1205
00:42:12,870 --> 00:42:10,640
year or by quarter

1206
00:42:15,030 --> 00:42:12,880
where they're expecting

1207
00:42:17,190 --> 00:42:15,040
certain deliverables

1208
00:42:18,230 --> 00:42:17,200
from the contractor that's doing the

1209
00:42:21,670 --> 00:42:18,240
work

1210
00:42:23,349 --> 00:42:21,680
whether it's reports or you know data

1211
00:42:26,309 --> 00:42:23,359
or what have you they're going to have

1212
00:42:28,309 --> 00:42:26,319
expectations of progress being made

1213
00:42:31,990 --> 00:42:28,319
so in the case of this particular

1214
00:42:34,069 --> 00:42:32,000
contract and this particular company

1215
00:42:35,670 --> 00:42:34,079
winning the award and getting started

1216
00:42:36,790 --> 00:42:35,680
hitting the ground running

1217
00:42:38,230 --> 00:42:36,800
it's not

1218
00:42:40,790 --> 00:42:38,240
unusual at all

1219
00:42:43,270 --> 00:42:40,800
to um for there be for there to be

1220
00:42:44,950 --> 00:42:43,280
immediate win wins in other words the

1221
00:42:46,950 --> 00:42:44,960
government's getting a lot of what it's

1222
00:42:49,430 --> 00:42:46,960
asking for and it's getting it very

1223
00:42:51,589 --> 00:42:49,440
early and in great detail

1224
00:42:53,349 --> 00:42:51,599
it sounds like bass was able to get in

1225
00:42:55,670 --> 00:42:53,359
there and uh

1226
00:42:57,190 --> 00:42:55,680
and be really productive really early

1227
00:42:59,030 --> 00:42:57,200
because they were

1228
00:43:01,030 --> 00:42:59,040
not surprising at all amazingly

1229
00:43:03,910 --> 00:43:01,040
productive and

1230
00:43:05,990 --> 00:43:03,920
so jonathan axelrod he was and he was

1231
00:43:07,910 --> 00:43:06,000
the acknowledged leader of the trio he

1232
00:43:09,750 --> 00:43:07,920
was a senior aerospace engineer and i'm

1233
00:43:12,309 --> 00:43:09,760
assuming that's not his real name when i

1234
00:43:13,910 --> 00:43:12,319
saw axelrod i thought if anybody's read

1235
00:43:15,670 --> 00:43:13,920
ingo swan's book

1236
00:43:17,109 --> 00:43:15,680
penetration one of the people he had

1237
00:43:18,630 --> 00:43:17,119
contact with a pro it seemed like it was

1238
00:43:20,069 --> 00:43:18,640
like a program manager was called

1239
00:43:22,309 --> 00:43:20,079
axelrod i don't think it's the same

1240
00:43:25,510 --> 00:43:22,319
person but so he was senior senior

1241
00:43:28,230 --> 00:43:25,520
aerospace engineer in naval intelligence

1242
00:43:29,750 --> 00:43:28,240
and his best friend was jim costigan

1243
00:43:31,990 --> 00:43:29,760
former marine

1244
00:43:33,750 --> 00:43:32,000
uh he served in afghanistan with axelrod

1245
00:43:35,750 --> 00:43:33,760
then he had david wilson i'm assuming

1246
00:43:37,190 --> 00:43:35,760
these are all fake names uh pseudonyms

1247
00:43:39,030 --> 00:43:37,200
former marine

1248
00:43:41,510 --> 00:43:39,040
all three did tours in afghanistan and

1249
00:43:43,190 --> 00:43:41,520
iraq all three red hunt for the

1250
00:43:44,710 --> 00:43:43,200
skinwalker

1251
00:43:48,790 --> 00:43:44,720
and

1252
00:43:50,870 --> 00:43:48,800
using various sensor tech in the field

1253
00:43:52,790 --> 00:43:50,880
which is perfect for skinwalker ranch

1254
00:43:55,589 --> 00:43:52,800
they were considered subject matter

1255
00:43:58,790 --> 00:43:55,599
experts and they were consultants uh

1256
00:44:00,309 --> 00:43:58,800
to the skinwalker ranch study and

1257
00:44:01,750 --> 00:44:00,319
axel what this is something i would like

1258
00:44:04,390 --> 00:44:01,760
to dig in further if we can find out who

1259
00:44:06,390 --> 00:44:04,400
this person is axelrod was well versed

1260
00:44:08,069 --> 00:44:06,400
in investigating anomalies

1261
00:44:09,750 --> 00:44:08,079
utilizing a thoroughly professional

1262
00:44:12,069 --> 00:44:09,760
approach so what was he in what

1263
00:44:13,510 --> 00:44:12,079
anomalies was he investigating before

1264
00:44:15,510 --> 00:44:13,520
this took place

1265
00:44:16,950 --> 00:44:15,520
i would love to know that um so they all

1266
00:44:19,430 --> 00:44:16,960
go those three they go to skinwalker

1267
00:44:20,710 --> 00:44:19,440
ranch july 2009 they're on the ranch

1268
00:44:22,870 --> 00:44:20,720
they have their meters everything they

1269
00:44:24,710 --> 00:44:22,880
have their night scope night vision and

1270
00:44:26,230 --> 00:44:24,720
there's a 20 degree drop in temperatures

1271
00:44:28,630 --> 00:44:26,240
and it's like a wall of coldness so

1272
00:44:30,950 --> 00:44:28,640
they'll back off it gets warmer go up to

1273
00:44:32,230 --> 00:44:30,960
it it drops 20 degrees

1274
00:44:34,470 --> 00:44:32,240
and

1275
00:44:36,230 --> 00:44:34,480
they all felt this unex unexplainable

1276
00:44:38,230 --> 00:44:36,240
fear and dread which i can't really

1277
00:44:39,990 --> 00:44:38,240
comprehend i've never had that but you

1278
00:44:41,910 --> 00:44:40,000
hear it over and over again people are

1279
00:44:44,870 --> 00:44:41,920
on the ranch they say it's just like

1280
00:44:47,589 --> 00:44:44,880
this terrifying feeling for no reason

1281
00:44:50,069 --> 00:44:47,599
um so they see this dark oval shape

1282
00:44:51,510 --> 00:44:50,079
eight feet tall 50 feet ahead totally

1283
00:44:53,030 --> 00:44:51,520
dark as if it's

1284
00:44:54,950 --> 00:44:53,040
all the light has been extinguished you

1285
00:44:55,990 --> 00:44:54,960
see the green night vision around it but

1286
00:44:58,150 --> 00:44:56,000
the actual

1287
00:44:59,829 --> 00:44:58,160
whatever it is it's just black

1288
00:45:01,829 --> 00:44:59,839
uh and they felt if they would continue

1289
00:45:04,390 --> 00:45:01,839
closer to it they would certain death

1290
00:45:07,670 --> 00:45:04,400
awaited them so they backed off

1291
00:45:10,230 --> 00:45:07,680
fear subsided and then

1292
00:45:11,670 --> 00:45:10,240
kelleher interviewed axelrod and costage

1293
00:45:12,950 --> 00:45:11,680
in a few years a few years later and

1294
00:45:15,510 --> 00:45:12,960
they said they couldn't see the dark

1295
00:45:18,390 --> 00:45:15,520
figure without the night vision

1296
00:45:19,990 --> 00:45:18,400
so

1297
00:45:21,910 --> 00:45:20,000
that tells us

1298
00:45:23,589 --> 00:45:21,920
what else are we seeing everyday life

1299
00:45:25,270 --> 00:45:23,599
that we can't see you know without that

1300
00:45:27,030 --> 00:45:25,280
kind of scope

1301
00:45:28,230 --> 00:45:27,040
um

1302
00:45:30,390 --> 00:45:28,240
so that was to be get that was the

1303
00:45:32,630 --> 00:45:30,400
beginning go ahead well do you remember

1304
00:45:36,470 --> 00:45:32,640
uh back mid-summer i think i was on

1305
00:45:38,870 --> 00:45:36,480
vacation and i was catching up on um i

1306
00:45:41,030 --> 00:45:38,880
guess it was season two

1307
00:45:42,550 --> 00:45:41,040
of um

1308
00:45:44,710 --> 00:45:42,560
the history channel series on the skin

1309
00:45:46,630 --> 00:45:44,720
skin walk around secrets of secrets of

1310
00:45:47,589 --> 00:45:46,640
skinwalker ranch yeah

1311
00:45:49,990 --> 00:45:47,599
and

1312
00:45:53,750 --> 00:45:50,000
now there's uh

1313
00:45:58,230 --> 00:45:55,270
so he's been featured on their right the

1314
00:46:01,190 --> 00:45:58,240
last couple years yes they observed

1315
00:46:03,430 --> 00:46:01,200
an almost i would say very very similar

1316
00:46:05,990 --> 00:46:03,440
if not i don't guess it's identical but

1317
00:46:07,190 --> 00:46:06,000
they observed a similar phenomena taking

1318
00:46:10,150 --> 00:46:07,200
place

1319
00:46:12,150 --> 00:46:10,160
with uh temperature change

1320
00:46:14,710 --> 00:46:12,160
i don't know if you watched any of that

1321
00:46:17,270 --> 00:46:14,720
i was i was pretty impressed because of

1322
00:46:18,230 --> 00:46:17,280
of travis taylor i've read some of his

1323
00:46:19,750 --> 00:46:18,240
work

1324
00:46:20,630 --> 00:46:19,760
and followed him

1325
00:46:23,030 --> 00:46:20,640
um

1326
00:46:26,069 --> 00:46:23,040
and he is a very serious and sober

1327
00:46:28,390 --> 00:46:26,079
scientist and if his if his accent

1328
00:46:30,950 --> 00:46:28,400
maybe like mine throws people off the

1329
00:46:32,470 --> 00:46:30,960
guy has got it going on upstairs

1330
00:46:33,510 --> 00:46:32,480
um

1331
00:46:35,510 --> 00:46:33,520
and

1332
00:46:37,510 --> 00:46:35,520
so i find his

1333
00:46:39,510 --> 00:46:37,520
involvement uh

1334
00:46:41,190 --> 00:46:39,520
really increasing the credibility of

1335
00:46:42,870 --> 00:46:41,200
what's going on out there as far as the

1336
00:46:45,190 --> 00:46:42,880
study of it

1337
00:46:47,270 --> 00:46:45,200
and and they very clearly documented

1338
00:46:49,430 --> 00:46:47,280
some some pretty significant temperature

1339
00:46:51,030 --> 00:46:49,440
changes very areas and they showed them

1340
00:46:52,390 --> 00:46:51,040
on the on the screen on their on their

1341
00:46:54,630 --> 00:46:52,400
sensor systems

1342
00:46:56,550 --> 00:46:54,640
on their laptops and you could see

1343
00:46:58,150 --> 00:46:56,560
these cold areas

1344
00:46:59,109 --> 00:46:58,160
and who knows what's going on there but

1345
00:47:01,670 --> 00:46:59,119
um

1346
00:47:03,190 --> 00:47:01,680
so you had a tie-in to last year going

1347
00:47:05,270 --> 00:47:03,200
well i guess that was filmed a year ago

1348
00:47:07,190 --> 00:47:05,280
but um

1349
00:47:08,710 --> 00:47:07,200
do you think that you know whatever they

1350
00:47:10,470 --> 00:47:08,720
captured on their knight scopes they

1351
00:47:12,069 --> 00:47:10,480
were able to record

1352
00:47:13,750 --> 00:47:12,079
i'm not familiar i've never used a

1353
00:47:15,349 --> 00:47:13,760
knight scope so are they able to record

1354
00:47:16,550 --> 00:47:15,359
what they're seeing i've never used one

1355
00:47:17,829 --> 00:47:16,560
either but if you're just talking about

1356
00:47:25,750 --> 00:47:17,839
a

1357
00:47:26,630 --> 00:47:25,760
um

1358
00:47:32,790 --> 00:47:26,640
i don't

1359
00:47:33,670 --> 00:47:32,800
unless you've got a recording attachment

1360
00:47:34,710 --> 00:47:33,680
you know

1361
00:47:36,390 --> 00:47:34,720
right

1362
00:47:38,150 --> 00:47:36,400
or if it's hooked up to us

1363
00:47:40,150 --> 00:47:38,160
as a sensor system hooked up to a

1364
00:47:42,150 --> 00:47:40,160
recording device but i i wouldn't be

1365
00:47:43,829 --> 00:47:42,160
able to speak to that without having

1366
00:47:45,510 --> 00:47:43,839
seen and i i actually plan on one of

1367
00:47:47,589 --> 00:47:45,520
these days owning

1368
00:47:49,670 --> 00:47:47,599
uh maybe a latest gem night vision

1369
00:47:51,349 --> 00:47:49,680
scissor system but they're uh they're

1370
00:47:52,870 --> 00:47:51,359
quite expensive

1371
00:47:54,790 --> 00:47:52,880
and um

1372
00:47:56,069 --> 00:47:54,800
it's you know i want to be sure that i'm

1373
00:47:59,510 --> 00:47:56,079
buying

1374
00:48:01,109 --> 00:47:59,520
one that's going to be effective and um

1375
00:48:03,030 --> 00:48:01,119
without having to spend you know they're

1376
00:48:04,870 --> 00:48:03,040
upwards of three to five thousand bucks

1377
00:48:07,270 --> 00:48:04,880
but yeah those those are the ones that

1378
00:48:09,829 --> 00:48:07,280
you hold up either like a monocular or

1379
00:48:11,670 --> 00:48:09,839
binocular or helmet mounted

1380
00:48:13,910 --> 00:48:11,680
but these other systems

1381
00:48:15,589 --> 00:48:13,920
i'm sure this is no issue you know to

1382
00:48:17,750 --> 00:48:15,599
record the data

1383
00:48:19,589 --> 00:48:17,760
i hope i hope so because i know lakotsky

1384
00:48:21,990 --> 00:48:19,599
said there's an entire room full at bass

1385
00:48:23,270 --> 00:48:22,000
of of data recordings um

1386
00:48:24,950 --> 00:48:23,280
which i think

1387
00:48:26,069 --> 00:48:24,960
unless it's dealing with propulsion and

1388
00:48:28,069 --> 00:48:26,079
something like that i think we should be

1389
00:48:29,589 --> 00:48:28,079
able to see hopefully we will one day

1390
00:48:31,030 --> 00:48:29,599
and um

1391
00:48:32,150 --> 00:48:31,040
i was going to say about

1392
00:48:33,510 --> 00:48:32,160
well let me just get into the most

1393
00:48:35,109 --> 00:48:33,520
controversial part of the book that

1394
00:48:36,470 --> 00:48:35,119
people are focusing on and i i don't

1395
00:48:38,950 --> 00:48:36,480
blame them

1396
00:48:40,390 --> 00:48:38,960
it sounds preposterous but the the most

1397
00:48:42,230 --> 00:48:40,400
important thing to me is they had

1398
00:48:43,990 --> 00:48:42,240
scientists there including lukowski who

1399
00:48:45,670 --> 00:48:44,000
would just he later would say in the

1400
00:48:47,190 --> 00:48:45,680
interview on coast to coast he goes none

1401
00:48:49,270 --> 00:48:47,200
of this stuff ever bothered me i just

1402
00:48:50,549 --> 00:48:49,280
took it you know people reported things

1403
00:48:52,230 --> 00:48:50,559
and it never bothered me and never

1404
00:48:54,470 --> 00:48:52,240
spooked me out so

1405
00:48:56,950 --> 00:48:54,480
those three guys left skinwalker ranch

1406
00:48:58,790 --> 00:48:56,960
10 days later axelrod goes

1407
00:48:59,589 --> 00:48:58,800
and calls up colin kelleher and he says

1408
00:49:01,349 --> 00:48:59,599
uh

1409
00:49:03,510 --> 00:49:01,359
i'm having poltergeist activity back in

1410
00:49:05,589 --> 00:49:03,520
my house in virginia because my wife saw

1411
00:49:08,470 --> 00:49:05,599
black humanoid shape walking towards her

1412
00:49:09,750 --> 00:49:08,480
bed uh and then a few months later

1413
00:49:11,750 --> 00:49:09,760
and then when she put the lights on it

1414
00:49:13,910 --> 00:49:11,760
would disappear a few months later he's

1415
00:49:15,430 --> 00:49:13,920
out of town his 16 year old son saw blue

1416
00:49:17,349 --> 00:49:15,440
orbs in his room

1417
00:49:18,870 --> 00:49:17,359
uh he screamed his wife his mother came

1418
00:49:19,750 --> 00:49:18,880
in but they disappeared before she got

1419
00:49:21,589 --> 00:49:19,760
there

1420
00:49:24,390 --> 00:49:21,599
then more shadow-like figures and loud

1421
00:49:26,390 --> 00:49:24,400
noises and

1422
00:49:29,109 --> 00:49:26,400
j.r and his wife

1423
00:49:31,030 --> 00:49:29,119
axelrod i say jr his wife he and his

1424
00:49:32,470 --> 00:49:31,040
wife were certain that all those all of

1425
00:49:35,270 --> 00:49:32,480
it started once they returned from

1426
00:49:36,230 --> 00:49:35,280
skinwalker um

1427
00:49:37,990 --> 00:49:36,240
and then here's the here's the

1428
00:49:39,349 --> 00:49:38,000
controversial really controversial part

1429
00:49:41,349 --> 00:49:39,359
she's uh

1430
00:49:42,950 --> 00:49:41,359
in her house and

1431
00:49:44,470 --> 00:49:42,960
she looks over walks over to the window

1432
00:49:46,230 --> 00:49:44,480
for a better look in the backyard and

1433
00:49:48,309 --> 00:49:46,240
she freezes and she sees one of the most

1434
00:49:50,390 --> 00:49:48,319
bizarre sights she's ever beheld

1435
00:49:51,990 --> 00:49:50,400
standing upright and leaning against one

1436
00:49:53,190 --> 00:49:52,000
of the trees at the perimeter of her

1437
00:49:56,470 --> 00:49:53,200
yard

1438
00:49:58,309 --> 00:49:56,480
was a huge wolf-like creature she saw

1439
00:50:00,150 --> 00:49:58,319
the creature plainly in the dim of light

1440
00:50:01,349 --> 00:50:00,160
night light had long hair and looked

1441
00:50:03,510 --> 00:50:01,359
like a wolf

1442
00:50:05,270 --> 00:50:03,520
but it was standing on two legs

1443
00:50:07,589 --> 00:50:05,280
the creature appeared to be staring

1444
00:50:09,829 --> 00:50:07,599
right at her its gaze was not friendly

1445
00:50:11,829 --> 00:50:09,839
although i don't know how a wolf on two

1446
00:50:13,750 --> 00:50:11,839
legs would present a friendly looking

1447
00:50:15,670 --> 00:50:13,760
days i don't know

1448
00:50:17,349 --> 00:50:15,680
uh she said the creature then took one

1449
00:50:19,910 --> 00:50:17,359
last look at her turned and walked away

1450
00:50:21,990 --> 00:50:19,920
slowly on two legs further into the tree

1451
00:50:23,589 --> 00:50:22,000
line within minutes she had lost sight

1452
00:50:26,069 --> 00:50:23,599
of it

1453
00:50:27,510 --> 00:50:26,079
there for a long time trying to

1454
00:50:29,510 --> 00:50:27,520
determine if she had just had a very

1455
00:50:30,950 --> 00:50:29,520
intense hallucination or if her mind was

1456
00:50:33,349 --> 00:50:30,960
beginning to go which obviously we would

1457
00:50:34,950 --> 00:50:33,359
all think to see something like that

1458
00:50:37,510 --> 00:50:34,960
she decided not to tell her husband or

1459
00:50:39,270 --> 00:50:37,520
her kids three days later her sons were

1460
00:50:41,030 --> 00:50:39,280
downstairs in the living room at 10 30

1461
00:50:42,710 --> 00:50:41,040
in the morning daylight they see the

1462
00:50:45,030 --> 00:50:42,720
same thing look at that looking at them

1463
00:50:46,710 --> 00:50:45,040
seven feet tall it took off running they

1464
00:50:48,870 --> 00:50:46,720
do some research online trying to find

1465
00:50:50,870 --> 00:50:48,880
out what they saw and they find a dog a

1466
00:50:52,069 --> 00:50:50,880
book on dogmen i don't know if that

1467
00:50:53,589 --> 00:50:52,079
matched what they were seeing the

1468
00:50:55,510 --> 00:50:53,599
pictures in that book but there were

1469
00:50:57,030 --> 00:50:55,520
multiple claw marks on the trees in the

1470
00:50:58,549 --> 00:50:57,040
backyard

1471
00:51:00,150 --> 00:50:58,559
and then

1472
00:51:03,030 --> 00:51:00,160
within a month a few months of returning

1473
00:51:05,589 --> 00:51:03,040
from skinwalker when axelrod got back

1474
00:51:07,270 --> 00:51:05,599
all of his family members had seen orbs

1475
00:51:10,150 --> 00:51:07,280
dark humanoid figures and heard

1476
00:51:12,309 --> 00:51:10,160
footsteps and axelrod wondered maybe

1477
00:51:14,549 --> 00:51:12,319
this is all a coincidence or or i

1478
00:51:15,589 --> 00:51:14,559
brought this home to my family so what

1479
00:51:17,910 --> 00:51:15,599
do you think about when you're reading

1480
00:51:20,309 --> 00:51:17,920
something like that especially with you

1481
00:51:21,430 --> 00:51:20,319
your background your credibility and

1482
00:51:25,349 --> 00:51:21,440
just think about if you had seen

1483
00:51:30,390 --> 00:51:26,870
well i i don't know what i would do

1484
00:51:32,950 --> 00:51:30,400
personally it's um to be honest it is it

1485
00:51:33,340 --> 00:51:32,960
can be disturbing right

1486
00:51:34,470 --> 00:51:33,350
um

1487
00:51:37,510 --> 00:51:34,480
[Music]

1488
00:51:39,990 --> 00:51:37,520
and i i'll just be frank after i read

1489
00:51:43,109 --> 00:51:40,000
this book it um

1490
00:51:45,190 --> 00:51:43,119
it you know and the other books that are

1491
00:51:46,710 --> 00:51:45,200
that are out there around this phenomena

1492
00:51:48,549 --> 00:51:46,720
that um

1493
00:51:51,670 --> 00:51:48,559
that talk more about the sort of the

1494
00:51:53,430 --> 00:51:51,680
metaphysical aspects of this

1495
00:51:55,349 --> 00:51:53,440
in the last couple of years i have

1496
00:51:57,910 --> 00:51:55,359
started to um

1497
00:51:59,670 --> 00:51:57,920
sort of expand my try to expand my world

1498
00:52:00,870 --> 00:51:59,680
view if you will

1499
00:52:01,990 --> 00:52:00,880
instead of just

1500
00:52:05,349 --> 00:52:02,000
because

1501
00:52:06,790 --> 00:52:05,359
frankly i was strictly a nuts and bolts

1502
00:52:09,270 --> 00:52:06,800
guy right

1503
00:52:12,390 --> 00:52:09,280
if it's flying it's got wings they're

1504
00:52:13,829 --> 00:52:12,400
fabricated somewhere um

1505
00:52:15,990 --> 00:52:13,839
by somebody

1506
00:52:18,150 --> 00:52:16,000
and they're they're flying by some

1507
00:52:20,069 --> 00:52:18,160
propulsion means that's something we

1508
00:52:22,390 --> 00:52:20,079
developed right so the whole trail of

1509
00:52:24,950 --> 00:52:22,400
logic there it might be associated with

1510
00:52:29,030 --> 00:52:24,960
that but after reading other books in

1511
00:52:31,270 --> 00:52:29,040
this one it does sort of force you to

1512
00:52:33,990 --> 00:52:31,280
open your mind a bit given the

1513
00:52:39,829 --> 00:52:34,000
credibility of these people

1514
00:52:44,950 --> 00:52:42,230
if i had not been

1515
00:52:47,510 --> 00:52:44,960
in that community

1516
00:52:50,630 --> 00:52:47,520
working and understanding what it takes

1517
00:52:53,190 --> 00:52:50,640
to be eligible to work in that community

1518
00:52:55,270 --> 00:52:53,200
and understanding what goes on to the

1519
00:52:56,950 --> 00:52:55,280
extent that i was exposed to things that

1520
00:53:00,150 --> 00:52:56,960
i was exposed to

1521
00:53:02,470 --> 00:53:00,160
because not any one person that is

1522
00:53:04,549 --> 00:53:02,480
highly cleared knows all the secrets

1523
00:53:05,750 --> 00:53:04,559
right it's compartmentalization but i'm

1524
00:53:06,870 --> 00:53:05,760
just saying

1525
00:53:09,190 --> 00:53:06,880
given

1526
00:53:11,910 --> 00:53:09,200
all of the capabilities and technologies

1527
00:53:13,990 --> 00:53:11,920
and things that i've been around

1528
00:53:15,270 --> 00:53:14,000
and the professionalism of the people

1529
00:53:17,349 --> 00:53:15,280
involved

1530
00:53:19,990 --> 00:53:17,359
doing that work

1531
00:53:22,150 --> 00:53:20,000
and then you read this book and read

1532
00:53:23,589 --> 00:53:22,160
their qualifications

1533
00:53:25,750 --> 00:53:23,599
it puts an

1534
00:53:26,790 --> 00:53:25,760
enormous stamp of credibility on it for

1535
00:53:31,829 --> 00:53:26,800
me

1536
00:53:34,150 --> 00:53:31,839
even more further want to open sort of

1537
00:53:35,910 --> 00:53:34,160
my aperture about the world of the

1538
00:53:37,030 --> 00:53:35,920
possible

1539
00:53:39,030 --> 00:53:37,040
um

1540
00:53:40,870 --> 00:53:39,040
i don't mean to skip forward in this at

1541
00:53:42,870 --> 00:53:40,880
all but when as you read these

1542
00:53:45,190 --> 00:53:42,880
encounters of these

1543
00:53:48,069 --> 00:53:45,200
family members from these guys that were

1544
00:53:51,030 --> 00:53:48,079
out there at skinwalker ranch

1545
00:53:53,589 --> 00:53:51,040
and they start tying or using the

1546
00:53:54,829 --> 00:53:53,599
the infectious disease model

1547
00:53:56,470 --> 00:53:54,839
to try to

1548
00:53:59,349 --> 00:53:56,480
understand

1549
00:54:02,870 --> 00:53:59,359
how it gets how these poltergeist

1550
00:54:06,549 --> 00:54:02,880
activities might be occurring

1551
00:54:09,030 --> 00:54:06,559
thousands of miles across the country

1552
00:54:10,790 --> 00:54:09,040
distant from where these individuals had

1553
00:54:12,309 --> 00:54:10,800
been involved in studying

1554
00:54:13,670 --> 00:54:12,319
what they thought was a localized

1555
00:54:14,549 --> 00:54:13,680
phenomena

1556
00:54:17,109 --> 00:54:14,559
um

1557
00:54:22,069 --> 00:54:17,119
that i felt was really intriguing

1558
00:54:25,670 --> 00:54:23,670
people involved in studying it but their

1559
00:54:28,549 --> 00:54:25,680
family members their children off of

1560
00:54:32,549 --> 00:54:28,559
college and so forth um

1561
00:54:36,549 --> 00:54:34,710
and by the way anybody

1562
00:54:38,549 --> 00:54:36,559
i i'm following the chat but i'm trying

1563
00:54:39,349 --> 00:54:38,559
to follow michael so any questions later

1564
00:54:42,309 --> 00:54:39,359
on

1565
00:54:43,270 --> 00:54:42,319
hi michael hi joe hi nicole hi bug hi

1566
00:54:45,430 --> 00:54:43,280
julie

1567
00:54:46,870 --> 00:54:45,440
um well we'll take questions later so

1568
00:54:48,390 --> 00:54:46,880
just repeat them and michael

1569
00:54:49,510 --> 00:54:48,400
huntington's like what's the credibility

1570
00:54:53,430 --> 00:54:49,520
of

1571
00:54:55,030 --> 00:54:53,440
has a military background for me i want

1572
00:54:56,549 --> 00:54:55,040
to hear from axelrod i want to see his

1573
00:54:59,349 --> 00:54:56,559
real name i want to see him tell his

1574
00:55:00,710 --> 00:54:59,359
story um do i immediately believe his

1575
00:55:03,990 --> 00:55:00,720
story well

1576
00:55:06,069 --> 00:55:04,000
i i trust that nap and the people who

1577
00:55:07,829 --> 00:55:06,079
wrote the book investigated the case

1578
00:55:09,430 --> 00:55:07,839
they spoke to the witnesses but i want

1579
00:55:12,309 --> 00:55:09,440
to hear from them that's why it was so

1580
00:55:13,910 --> 00:55:12,319
important when fravor came forward

1581
00:55:15,430 --> 00:55:13,920
i remember back then i'm like great we

1582
00:55:16,789 --> 00:55:15,440
see a video of a tic tac i want to hear

1583
00:55:18,710 --> 00:55:16,799
from the radar operators i want to hear

1584
00:55:20,630 --> 00:55:18,720
from the pilots it's so important look

1585
00:55:23,030 --> 00:55:20,640
how that's changed the story i mean when

1586
00:55:25,030 --> 00:55:23,040
60 minutes had dietrich and fravor and

1587
00:55:26,789 --> 00:55:25,040
and ryan graves on it's so important to

1588
00:55:28,069 --> 00:55:26,799
see that so hopefully and and i don't

1589
00:55:29,910 --> 00:55:28,079
blame those people for not coming

1590
00:55:31,829 --> 00:55:29,920
forward right now i mean

1591
00:55:33,510 --> 00:55:31,839
axelrod's gonna talk about yeah my while

1592
00:55:36,470 --> 00:55:33,520
he didn't see the wolf but the family i

1593
00:55:38,309 --> 00:55:36,480
mean me personally i mean i and there's

1594
00:55:40,710 --> 00:55:38,319
shadow beings there's shadow figures

1595
00:55:41,910 --> 00:55:40,720
that are spoken about my my first

1596
00:55:44,150 --> 00:55:41,920
ex-wife

1597
00:55:45,910 --> 00:55:44,160
she in her entire life michael she saw

1598
00:55:48,069 --> 00:55:45,920
this this dark

1599
00:55:48,950 --> 00:55:48,079
figure which is really common he wears a

1600
00:55:51,510 --> 00:55:48,960
hat

1601
00:55:53,030 --> 00:55:51,520
and standing by her bed every night

1602
00:55:54,470 --> 00:55:53,040
every night when she was younger for

1603
00:55:56,630 --> 00:55:54,480
years and years and years and then as

1604
00:55:58,789 --> 00:55:56,640
she got older she's like i look online

1605
00:56:00,230 --> 00:55:58,799
she goes that story is so prevalent it's

1606
00:56:01,910 --> 00:56:00,240
like what do you do with that she would

1607
00:56:03,910 --> 00:56:01,920
only tell me because you can't tell your

1608
00:56:06,309 --> 00:56:03,920
co-workers oh yeah there was this man in

1609
00:56:07,670 --> 00:56:06,319
black uh in a hat in a full-length black

1610
00:56:09,349 --> 00:56:07,680
trench coat who would just stand by my

1611
00:56:12,230 --> 00:56:09,359
bed every night and i think it's

1612
00:56:13,829 --> 00:56:12,240
connected to this i don't know how um so

1613
00:56:15,430 --> 00:56:13,839
yeah it's it's difficult michael's like

1614
00:56:17,349 --> 00:56:15,440
the credibility i agree i would want to

1615
00:56:19,270 --> 00:56:17,359
hear from these people unfortunately

1616
00:56:21,349 --> 00:56:19,280
we're still getting people to accept

1617
00:56:22,950 --> 00:56:21,359
basic nuts and bolts so i'm going to

1618
00:56:24,390 --> 00:56:22,960
talk about it but i i'm not going to be

1619
00:56:26,789 --> 00:56:24,400
surprised if the new york times doesn't

1620
00:56:28,789 --> 00:56:26,799
do a story on you know poltergeist

1621
00:56:30,549 --> 00:56:28,799
effects but hopefully more people who

1622
00:56:32,549 --> 00:56:30,559
have had the experience will speak up

1623
00:56:34,230 --> 00:56:32,559
more and i think that's going to help

1624
00:56:36,230 --> 00:56:34,240
yeah there's there's going to be a

1625
00:56:37,589 --> 00:56:36,240
problem i think in bridging

1626
00:56:40,309 --> 00:56:37,599
the uh

1627
00:56:41,510 --> 00:56:40,319
sort of the the perspectives of people

1628
00:56:43,349 --> 00:56:41,520
outside

1629
00:56:45,589 --> 00:56:43,359
the intelligence community the defense

1630
00:56:47,430 --> 00:56:45,599
intelligence community

1631
00:56:49,670 --> 00:56:47,440
that are having these experiences

1632
00:56:51,589 --> 00:56:49,680
written about in this book

1633
00:56:54,789 --> 00:56:51,599
bridging

1634
00:56:57,349 --> 00:56:54,799
their experiences and their perceptions

1635
00:56:58,950 --> 00:56:57,359
over to people who are not involved in

1636
00:57:00,870 --> 00:56:58,960
that line of work

1637
00:57:01,829 --> 00:57:00,880
people like reporters maybe like

1638
00:57:05,349 --> 00:57:01,839
yourself

1639
00:57:07,109 --> 00:57:05,359
and others that are just reading this um

1640
00:57:09,430 --> 00:57:07,119
and i'll just

1641
00:57:10,870 --> 00:57:09,440
reiterate that if

1642
00:57:13,270 --> 00:57:10,880
if you took any

1643
00:57:15,589 --> 00:57:13,280
sort of core set of

1644
00:57:17,510 --> 00:57:15,599
my own personal colleagues

1645
00:57:19,430 --> 00:57:17,520
from any of the

1646
00:57:21,190 --> 00:57:19,440
activities or

1647
00:57:22,150 --> 00:57:21,200
projects that i've ever been involved

1648
00:57:23,990 --> 00:57:22,160
with

1649
00:57:26,069 --> 00:57:24,000
in the community

1650
00:57:28,309 --> 00:57:26,079
and those people sitting whether we're

1651
00:57:29,190 --> 00:57:28,319
sitting around at a in a restaurant at a

1652
00:57:32,710 --> 00:57:29,200
bar

1653
00:57:35,670 --> 00:57:32,720
or you know out on a mission somewhere

1654
00:57:37,030 --> 00:57:35,680
on a on a trip what we call tdy or you

1655
00:57:38,950 --> 00:57:37,040
know you're going to travel somewhere to

1656
00:57:41,109 --> 00:57:38,960
go support something

1657
00:57:42,950 --> 00:57:41,119
and any of my colleagues that would

1658
00:57:44,789 --> 00:57:42,960
begin to tell me

1659
00:57:48,470 --> 00:57:44,799
in all seriousness

1660
00:57:50,470 --> 00:57:48,480
it no matter how bizarre it may sound

1661
00:57:53,589 --> 00:57:50,480
any tale

1662
00:57:55,910 --> 00:57:53,599
whatever it might be

1663
00:57:58,630 --> 00:57:55,920
simply because

1664
00:58:01,430 --> 00:57:58,640
i know them i know their work i know

1665
00:58:04,230 --> 00:58:01,440
their background i know who they are how

1666
00:58:06,230 --> 00:58:04,240
they got into the job they're in

1667
00:58:08,549 --> 00:58:06,240
what their professional and technical

1668
00:58:11,430 --> 00:58:08,559
acumen is like

1669
00:58:13,829 --> 00:58:11,440
i'm going to listen to them and i'm

1670
00:58:16,710 --> 00:58:13,839
going to believe them right they would

1671
00:58:17,829 --> 00:58:16,720
not be bullshitting me

1672
00:58:19,510 --> 00:58:17,839
uh

1673
00:58:21,030 --> 00:58:19,520
about something

1674
00:58:23,349 --> 00:58:21,040
whether it's a topic like this or

1675
00:58:25,270 --> 00:58:23,359
whatever i mean serious people have

1676
00:58:27,190 --> 00:58:25,280
serious conversations about serious

1677
00:58:29,109 --> 00:58:27,200
things

1678
00:58:31,109 --> 00:58:29,119
but that's within their own

1679
00:58:34,789 --> 00:58:31,119
peer groups right it's more easily

1680
00:58:37,109 --> 00:58:34,799
accepted more easily understood

1681
00:58:38,870 --> 00:58:37,119
but when you talk about trying to bridge

1682
00:58:39,670 --> 00:58:38,880
those experiences written about in this

1683
00:58:42,309 --> 00:58:39,680
book

1684
00:58:45,030 --> 00:58:42,319
by these guys they're former

1685
00:58:45,910 --> 00:58:45,040
sounds like uh if not combat hardened

1686
00:58:49,589 --> 00:58:45,920
they're

1687
00:58:50,950 --> 00:58:49,599
certainly combat theater experienced

1688
00:58:53,990 --> 00:58:50,960
uh

1689
00:58:55,990 --> 00:58:54,000
they're technical they're highly cleared

1690
00:58:57,990 --> 00:58:56,000
they're highly professional and capable

1691
00:59:00,470 --> 00:58:58,000
whatever their core skill set might be

1692
00:59:01,589 --> 00:59:00,480
whether they're an engineer or scientist

1693
00:59:02,470 --> 00:59:01,599
whatever

1694
00:59:05,349 --> 00:59:02,480
um

1695
00:59:07,750 --> 00:59:05,359
trying to trying to bridge that

1696
00:59:11,109 --> 00:59:07,760
perception and and

1697
00:59:12,710 --> 00:59:11,119
translate those experiences over to

1698
00:59:14,309 --> 00:59:12,720
people right writing about it in the

1699
00:59:16,230 --> 00:59:14,319
civilian world

1700
00:59:18,870 --> 00:59:16,240
is going to be difficult it's going to

1701
00:59:21,670 --> 00:59:18,880
be hard for people to accept and i and i

1702
00:59:25,670 --> 00:59:23,109
that but

1703
00:59:27,349 --> 00:59:25,680
i'm just saying that if um

1704
00:59:29,190 --> 00:59:27,359
if next month

1705
00:59:30,789 --> 00:59:29,200
i would be on a project and ran across

1706
00:59:32,950 --> 00:59:30,799
some of these guys and they took me

1707
00:59:34,150 --> 00:59:32,960
aside at some point at lunch or inside

1708
00:59:36,630 --> 00:59:34,160
the office or whatever and started

1709
00:59:38,789 --> 00:59:36,640
telling me about these very experiences

1710
00:59:40,150 --> 00:59:38,799
i would believe them right

1711
00:59:41,829 --> 00:59:40,160
now in the same way i don't really have

1712
00:59:43,109 --> 00:59:41,839
a lot of people that tell me experiences

1713
00:59:44,630 --> 00:59:43,119
like that and

1714
00:59:46,470 --> 00:59:44,640
you know michael huntington michael

1715
00:59:48,710 --> 00:59:46,480
huntington says not everything is true

1716
00:59:51,589 --> 00:59:48,720
obviously obviously not everything is

1717
00:59:53,190 --> 00:59:51,599
true they investigated these cases um

1718
00:59:55,109 --> 00:59:53,200
i'm skeptical about a lot of stuff i

1719
00:59:56,549 --> 00:59:55,119
mean i spoke to somebody

1720
00:59:58,549 --> 00:59:56,559
a couple of people you know and i'm like

1721
01:00:00,789 --> 00:59:58,559
i'm trying to be open-minded that maybe

1722
01:00:02,150 --> 01:00:00,799
this is black technology which i when i

1723
01:00:03,829 --> 01:00:02,160
interviewed kate green a couple of years

1724
01:00:05,030 --> 01:00:03,839
ago a lot of his patients he thinks he's

1725
01:00:07,270 --> 01:00:05,040
like yeah they think they're dealing

1726
01:00:09,190 --> 01:00:07,280
with ufos aliens he goes i'm not so sure

1727
01:00:11,910 --> 01:00:09,200
he goes i can explain a lot of this with

1728
01:00:13,349 --> 01:00:11,920
black technology and i'm like okay

1729
01:00:14,549 --> 01:00:13,359
let me try to think about this some of

1730
01:00:16,549 --> 01:00:14,559
these cases

1731
01:00:18,230 --> 01:00:16,559
you maybe will be able to explain maybe

1732
01:00:20,069 --> 01:00:18,240
an orb you know we have that technology

1733
01:00:21,510 --> 01:00:20,079
but these people will get to this

1734
01:00:23,510 --> 01:00:21,520
they're getting injured and they're also

1735
01:00:26,390 --> 01:00:23,520
going home and family members are

1736
01:00:29,109 --> 01:00:26,400
experiencing poltergeist-like effects so

1737
01:00:30,870 --> 01:00:29,119
our black ops some even if it's an off

1738
01:00:32,630 --> 01:00:30,880
the books agency they're doing that i

1739
01:00:33,910 --> 01:00:32,640
just have a really hard time build it's

1740
01:00:35,750 --> 01:00:33,920
more believable to me that it's

1741
01:00:38,470 --> 01:00:35,760
something anomalous than it's black

1742
01:00:40,230 --> 01:00:38,480
technology um but i'm gonna get to the

1743
01:00:42,789 --> 01:00:40,240
park the next part in the book they talk

1744
01:00:44,710 --> 01:00:42,799
about the dinner in 2009 so it was it

1745
01:00:47,430 --> 01:00:44,720
was a meeting of

1746
01:00:49,910 --> 01:00:47,440
east coast dia awesome folks with west

1747
01:00:51,589 --> 01:00:49,920
coast bass folks uh and the book says

1748
01:00:53,990 --> 01:00:51,599
the people who showed up to the dinner

1749
01:00:55,910 --> 01:00:54,000
were the a team of covert investigative

1750
01:00:58,789 --> 01:00:55,920
talent across multiple agencies in the

1751
01:01:00,309 --> 01:00:58,799
us government they were all unique a

1752
01:01:03,349 --> 01:01:00,319
unique group that was passionately

1753
01:01:05,349 --> 01:01:03,359
focused on investigation uap with cons

1754
01:01:07,030 --> 01:01:05,359
consummate professionalism they also had

1755
01:01:08,309 --> 01:01:07,040
access to state-of-the-art sensor

1756
01:01:10,470 --> 01:01:08,319
technology

1757
01:01:12,470 --> 01:01:10,480
the dinner was organized by likkatsky

1758
01:01:14,789 --> 01:01:12,480
and axelrod and it was the first attempt

1759
01:01:16,630 --> 01:01:14,799
to bring uh las vegas and east coast

1760
01:01:20,230 --> 01:01:16,640
arms of ossap together

1761
01:01:21,750 --> 01:01:20,240
uh elizondo that's what elizondo uh they

1762
01:01:23,510 --> 01:01:21,760
said he spoke about his advanced

1763
01:01:25,910 --> 01:01:23,520
intuition on the battlefield and remote

1764
01:01:27,510 --> 01:01:25,920
viewing capabilities which had saved his

1765
01:01:29,430 --> 01:01:27,520
life in the life of his men while on a

1766
01:01:31,750 --> 01:01:29,440
covert combat mission in war-torn

1767
01:01:33,510 --> 01:01:31,760
afghanistan i believe remote viewing is

1768
01:01:35,190 --> 01:01:33,520
real and intuition i don't know about

1769
01:01:38,390 --> 01:01:35,200
that story i know nothing i had no no

1770
01:01:40,390 --> 01:01:38,400
detail no details he was asked about it

1771
01:01:42,230 --> 01:01:40,400
but he did not want to comment on the

1772
01:01:43,430 --> 01:01:42,240
book which i'm a little disappointed in

1773
01:01:45,589 --> 01:01:43,440
because

1774
01:01:48,710 --> 01:01:45,599
lakotsky was the guy that hired lou back

1775
01:01:50,829 --> 01:01:48,720
in 2000 i think it was 2009. so i would

1776
01:01:52,390 --> 01:01:50,839
like to hear from lou

1777
01:01:53,829 --> 01:01:52,400
um

1778
01:01:56,069 --> 01:01:53,839
imagine being a fly on the wall that

1779
01:01:58,630 --> 01:01:56,079
dinner michael i mean and to see those

1780
01:02:00,710 --> 01:01:58,640
people those that many qualified people

1781
01:02:02,710 --> 01:02:00,720
who are serious professionals

1782
01:02:04,309 --> 01:02:02,720
seriously investigating uap and related

1783
01:02:05,829 --> 01:02:04,319
phenomena it does give me hope going

1784
01:02:07,029 --> 01:02:05,839
forward because we know there are more

1785
01:02:08,870 --> 01:02:07,039
people out there there are more people

1786
01:02:09,990 --> 01:02:08,880
like you who are open-minded

1787
01:02:11,750 --> 01:02:10,000
um

1788
01:02:13,990 --> 01:02:11,760
and by the way i did wear my skinwalker

1789
01:02:15,829 --> 01:02:14,000
t-shirt by the way

1790
01:02:17,589 --> 01:02:15,839
which i got at the i got at the jeremy

1791
01:02:19,190 --> 01:02:17,599
corbell premiere i forgot to mention it

1792
01:02:21,510 --> 01:02:19,200
so yeah so

1793
01:02:23,430 --> 01:02:21,520
are you hopeful that more people will be

1794
01:02:24,789 --> 01:02:23,440
open we see more of that kind of and i

1795
01:02:26,630 --> 01:02:24,799
know it's anonymous right now and there

1796
01:02:28,230 --> 01:02:26,640
are pseudonyms in the book

1797
01:02:29,990 --> 01:02:28,240
you think we'll be alive to see that

1798
01:02:32,230 --> 01:02:30,000
open discussion you know on news

1799
01:02:33,829 --> 01:02:32,240
broadcast or

1800
01:02:35,829 --> 01:02:33,839
just anywhere more more people have

1801
01:02:37,750 --> 01:02:35,839
access to those claims

1802
01:02:39,349 --> 01:02:37,760
well i think uh

1803
01:02:41,750 --> 01:02:39,359
i am hopeful

1804
01:02:43,430 --> 01:02:41,760
i think there needs to be more um you

1805
01:02:45,430 --> 01:02:43,440
know i think chris mellon

1806
01:02:49,109 --> 01:02:45,440
probably said it

1807
01:02:50,870 --> 01:02:49,119
best most recently and i forget which

1808
01:02:52,789 --> 01:02:50,880
exact story it was about it may have

1809
01:02:54,069 --> 01:02:52,799
been about the so-called

1810
01:02:56,390 --> 01:02:54,079
pyramid

1811
01:02:58,950 --> 01:02:56,400
shaped

1812
01:03:03,349 --> 01:03:00,630
vehicles

1813
01:03:05,670 --> 01:03:03,359
right contacts that were

1814
01:03:08,069 --> 01:03:05,680
maneuvering around the warships

1815
01:03:10,150 --> 01:03:08,079
i believe it was is when corbell came

1816
01:03:11,670 --> 01:03:10,160
out with those videos

1817
01:03:14,150 --> 01:03:11,680
that um

1818
01:03:15,829 --> 01:03:14,160
mellon said you know this is great

1819
01:03:17,910 --> 01:03:15,839
reporting something to the effect this

1820
01:03:19,670 --> 01:03:17,920
is great reporting but we really need

1821
01:03:22,309 --> 01:03:19,680
this to be out more out into the

1822
01:03:25,029 --> 01:03:22,319
mainstream media like you know cbs 60

1823
01:03:28,549 --> 01:03:25,039
minutes new york times cnn

1824
01:03:30,470 --> 01:03:28,559
what have you and not on places like not

1825
01:03:35,349 --> 01:03:30,480
just on places he was trying to be

1826
01:03:38,630 --> 01:03:35,359
diplomatic like the war zone or um

1827
01:03:40,950 --> 01:03:38,640
uh mystery wire or what have you and and

1828
01:03:42,789 --> 01:03:40,960
and he's exactly right

1829
01:03:45,349 --> 01:03:42,799
um

1830
01:03:47,670 --> 01:03:45,359
i think you know this aspect of the what

1831
01:03:49,109 --> 01:03:47,680
they call the invisible college very

1832
01:03:51,750 --> 01:03:49,119
clearly

1833
01:03:53,109 --> 01:03:51,760
has existed for decades

1834
01:03:53,990 --> 01:03:53,119
um

1835
01:03:57,349 --> 01:03:54,000
as

1836
01:04:00,150 --> 01:03:57,359
and and certainly avi loeb is is part of

1837
01:04:03,270 --> 01:04:00,160
the uh the bow wave

1838
01:04:04,390 --> 01:04:03,280
with his efforts his group's efforts to

1839
01:04:06,029 --> 01:04:04,400
study

1840
01:04:09,270 --> 01:04:06,039
the potential for

1841
01:04:13,430 --> 01:04:09,280
extraterrestrial technology um

1842
01:04:15,589 --> 01:04:13,440
to be in our midst um

1843
01:04:18,470 --> 01:04:15,599
groups like that are helping to crack

1844
01:04:19,510 --> 01:04:18,480
the the sort of the hard outer exterior

1845
01:04:20,630 --> 01:04:19,520
of this

1846
01:04:24,470 --> 01:04:20,640
which

1847
01:04:27,270 --> 01:04:24,480
is the exterior of uh shame and ridicule

1848
01:04:29,589 --> 01:04:27,280
and embarrassment

1849
01:04:32,150 --> 01:04:29,599
and taboo right they're really helping

1850
01:04:34,309 --> 01:04:32,160
to to bring that wall down

1851
01:04:36,470 --> 01:04:34,319
but it's going to take

1852
01:04:37,829 --> 01:04:36,480
you know books like this how helpful

1853
01:04:40,390 --> 01:04:37,839
helpful are they

1854
01:04:41,109 --> 01:04:40,400
how helpful is this book

1855
01:04:45,029 --> 01:04:41,119
i

1856
01:04:46,950 --> 01:04:45,039
most of us who are already

1857
01:04:49,270 --> 01:04:46,960
pretty aware of the two distinct

1858
01:04:50,390 --> 01:04:49,280
programs asap and atep

1859
01:04:52,390 --> 01:04:50,400
it helps

1860
01:04:54,549 --> 01:04:52,400
really connect the timeline

1861
01:04:57,190 --> 01:04:54,559
milestones in those timelines and and

1862
01:04:59,029 --> 01:04:57,200
let us lets us know what was going on

1863
01:05:01,910 --> 01:04:59,039
but um

1864
01:05:04,230 --> 01:05:01,920
i'm not sure how

1865
01:05:06,630 --> 01:05:04,240
much of an impact this is going to have

1866
01:05:08,870 --> 01:05:06,640
i'm hopeful it has impact

1867
01:05:10,630 --> 01:05:08,880
but i'm not sure how much on

1868
01:05:13,109 --> 01:05:10,640
society at large

1869
01:05:16,150 --> 01:05:13,119
and the believability factor and the

1870
01:05:18,549 --> 01:05:16,160
buy-in that people need to have

1871
01:05:20,390 --> 01:05:18,559
to study it more uh

1872
01:05:22,549 --> 01:05:20,400
to sort of learn about it from whether

1873
01:05:25,190 --> 01:05:22,559
it's the public to try to steer people

1874
01:05:27,589 --> 01:05:25,200
away from and you know to reduce the

1875
01:05:29,190 --> 01:05:27,599
ridicule factor and to

1876
01:05:32,710 --> 01:05:29,200
attract

1877
01:05:34,710 --> 01:05:32,720
top scientific minds and the the

1878
01:05:36,150 --> 01:05:34,720
importantly the investment dollars that

1879
01:05:37,589 --> 01:05:36,160
have to come from that and i think

1880
01:05:38,549 --> 01:05:37,599
that's that's one of them we've talked

1881
01:05:40,390 --> 01:05:38,559
about this

1882
01:05:41,589 --> 01:05:40,400
one of the biggest reasons you don't

1883
01:05:45,349 --> 01:05:41,599
hear

1884
01:05:47,349 --> 01:05:45,359
um the seti people getting behind this

1885
01:05:48,950 --> 01:05:47,359
is because

1886
01:05:51,589 --> 01:05:48,960
their entire

1887
01:05:53,910 --> 01:05:51,599
existence

1888
01:05:56,390 --> 01:05:53,920
is based on the funding they get to

1889
01:05:58,069 --> 01:05:56,400
continue their research

1890
01:06:01,510 --> 01:05:58,079
right and if they do anything to

1891
01:06:03,349 --> 01:06:01,520
jeopardize that funding then their

1892
01:06:04,870 --> 01:06:03,359
existence pretty much

1893
01:06:05,910 --> 01:06:04,880
goes away

1894
01:06:09,589 --> 01:06:05,920
so

1895
01:06:12,230 --> 01:06:09,599
you get you get uh these snide remarks

1896
01:06:13,349 --> 01:06:12,240
from some of these guys in seti

1897
01:06:15,109 --> 01:06:13,359
uh

1898
01:06:16,549 --> 01:06:15,119
that almost seem like they're programmed

1899
01:06:19,029 --> 01:06:16,559
in right

1900
01:06:21,190 --> 01:06:19,039
it's they're almost remarks that are put

1901
01:06:24,470 --> 01:06:21,200
out there as guard rails

1902
01:06:25,510 --> 01:06:24,480
to protect their line of work

1903
01:06:27,670 --> 01:06:25,520
when

1904
01:06:29,109 --> 01:06:27,680
how can they ignore if they were to

1905
01:06:32,710 --> 01:06:29,119
spend just

1906
01:06:33,750 --> 01:06:32,720
half a day initially half a day going

1907
01:06:34,950 --> 01:06:33,760
through

1908
01:06:38,470 --> 01:06:34,960
uh

1909
01:06:40,789 --> 01:06:38,480
sort of the history of this phenomenon

1910
01:06:42,390 --> 01:06:40,799
they would certainly i don't see how if

1911
01:06:44,309 --> 01:06:42,400
they if they spend half a day with an

1912
01:06:45,910 --> 01:06:44,319
open mind

1913
01:06:48,630 --> 01:06:45,920
that they would not come away from that

1914
01:06:51,270 --> 01:06:48,640
wanting to spend more time at least

1915
01:06:52,870 --> 01:06:51,280
digging into it just find out

1916
01:06:52,870 --> 01:06:54,390
whether it's real or whether it's

1917
01:07:01,349 --> 01:06:57,670
but right now all you get from shasta

1918
01:07:03,430 --> 01:07:01,359
and others is um these you know even if

1919
01:07:06,309 --> 01:07:03,440
they try to sort of write seriously

1920
01:07:09,510 --> 01:07:06,319
about it as shostak did a few months ago

1921
01:07:12,309 --> 01:07:09,520
in an opinion piece i think it was

1922
01:07:15,589 --> 01:07:12,319
they always end up wrapping it up with

1923
01:07:18,470 --> 01:07:15,599
some little um sewing that see that last

1924
01:07:20,230 --> 01:07:18,480
sinew of doubt in there right uh oh he

1925
01:07:21,750 --> 01:07:20,240
does more than that he goes

1926
01:07:23,990 --> 01:07:21,760
recently i forget what it was he just

1927
01:07:25,670 --> 01:07:24,000
went total debunker and i'm like why is

1928
01:07:27,589 --> 01:07:25,680
he part of avi loeb's group i don't

1929
01:07:29,109 --> 01:07:27,599
understand that um just one thing you

1930
01:07:30,150 --> 01:07:29,119
said

1931
01:07:31,750 --> 01:07:30,160
you know when i remember when

1932
01:07:33,349 --> 01:07:31,760
christopher mullen said yeah we need

1933
01:07:35,990 --> 01:07:33,359
groups that are more you know more

1934
01:07:38,549 --> 01:07:36,000
mainstream than mystery wire and and i

1935
01:07:41,029 --> 01:07:38,559
like and extraordinarybeliefs.com which

1936
01:07:43,589 --> 01:07:41,039
is jeremy corbell but that that went all

1937
01:07:45,109 --> 01:07:43,599
over the world and jeremy corbell said

1938
01:07:47,910 --> 01:07:45,119
we did offer it to some of the

1939
01:07:49,029 --> 01:07:47,920
mainstream folks they turned it down so

1940
01:07:51,270 --> 01:07:49,039
um

1941
01:07:53,510 --> 01:07:51,280
i i understand what you're saying uh but

1942
01:07:55,510 --> 01:07:53,520
hopefully when they get another chance

1943
01:07:57,510 --> 01:07:55,520
they get the name of the program right i

1944
01:07:59,670 --> 01:07:57,520
know it wasn't just a name and by the

1945
01:08:01,750 --> 01:07:59,680
way i i'm happy all those reporters

1946
01:08:04,150 --> 01:08:01,760
cover it but i'm still a little salty

1947
01:08:06,390 --> 01:08:04,160
about missing asap so

1948
01:08:08,470 --> 01:08:06,400
juliet witt

1949
01:08:10,870 --> 01:08:08,480
who was known only by reputation to the

1950
01:08:13,190 --> 01:08:10,880
basque group as a superb pentagon

1951
01:08:14,789 --> 01:08:13,200
operational test and evaluation analysts

1952
01:08:16,709 --> 01:08:14,799
and i'm reading this so people know

1953
01:08:18,709 --> 01:08:16,719
backgrounds backgrounds on these people

1954
01:08:19,829 --> 01:08:18,719
and she was a dod target sensor

1955
01:08:21,749 --> 01:08:19,839
specialist

1956
01:08:23,110 --> 01:08:21,759
well-versed in counter-intelligence

1957
01:08:24,870 --> 01:08:23,120
operations

1958
01:08:27,510 --> 01:08:24,880
veteran of multiple tours in russia

1959
01:08:30,229 --> 01:08:27,520
afghanistan uh no stranger to cloak and

1960
01:08:32,390 --> 01:08:30,239
dagger rituals undercover work

1961
01:08:34,789 --> 01:08:32,400
and her pentagon work included

1962
01:08:36,950 --> 01:08:34,799
membership of multiple interagency task

1963
01:08:38,630 --> 01:08:36,960
forces that dealt with technical data

1964
01:08:40,470 --> 01:08:38,640
gathering

1965
01:08:42,870 --> 01:08:40,480
so she goes three weeks after that

1966
01:08:46,470 --> 01:08:42,880
dinner i spoke about she goes with colin

1967
01:08:48,470 --> 01:08:46,480
kelleher and bigelow to skinwalker ranch

1968
01:08:50,709 --> 01:08:48,480
and she's a little nervous and they see

1969
01:08:53,030 --> 01:08:50,719
this

1970
01:08:54,390 --> 01:08:53,040
creature that walks out it's got it's

1971
01:08:55,749 --> 01:08:54,400
moonlit and there's another one that's

1972
01:08:57,430 --> 01:08:55,759
hard to believe for most people it's

1973
01:08:59,669 --> 01:08:57,440
just consistent with what's you know

1974
01:09:01,910 --> 01:08:59,679
crazy stuff that's seen on the ranch a

1975
01:09:03,910 --> 01:09:01,920
creature glided past within 30 feet of

1976
01:09:06,390 --> 01:09:03,920
kelleher and 50 feet of wit

1977
01:09:08,709 --> 01:09:06,400
uh to kelleher it appeared the animal

1978
01:09:11,030 --> 01:09:08,719
had a series of dinosaur-like spines on

1979
01:09:14,070 --> 01:09:11,040
its back and also sporting a very large

1980
01:09:15,590 --> 01:09:14,080
flattened beaver tail beaver-like tail

1981
01:09:17,269 --> 01:09:15,600
uh no noise

1982
01:09:18,709 --> 01:09:17,279
and before it happened something

1983
01:09:20,229 --> 01:09:18,719
happened that happened so many times

1984
01:09:22,229 --> 01:09:20,239
with these cases there was a cone of

1985
01:09:23,910 --> 01:09:22,239
silence you couldn't hear anything else

1986
01:09:25,590 --> 01:09:23,920
brandon fugal has spoken about it other

1987
01:09:27,590 --> 01:09:25,600
people have spoken about it i don't know

1988
01:09:29,030 --> 01:09:27,600
if that's somehow if this if it's

1989
01:09:30,630 --> 01:09:29,040
something from another dimension it's

1990
01:09:31,829 --> 01:09:30,640
something in our world that's what

1991
01:09:33,189 --> 01:09:31,839
happened and you just don't hear

1992
01:09:36,390 --> 01:09:33,199
anything and it affects your hearing i

1993
01:09:38,229 --> 01:09:36,400
don't know but it's reported a lot um

1994
01:09:39,749 --> 01:09:38,239
no pictures people already complained

1995
01:09:42,070 --> 01:09:39,759
about that like said no time for

1996
01:09:44,470 --> 01:09:42,080
pictures that happened so fast uh so she

1997
01:09:47,349 --> 01:09:44,480
took she took sage and heather

1998
01:09:49,110 --> 01:09:47,359
uh a plant home from skinwalker ranch

1999
01:09:51,189 --> 01:09:49,120
and with the within a week of returning

2000
01:09:52,950 --> 01:09:51,199
home her roommate screamed in the middle

2001
01:09:56,070 --> 01:09:52,960
of the night because he saw a figure

2002
01:09:58,149 --> 01:09:56,080
standing over his bed um that she also

2003
01:09:59,830 --> 01:09:58,159
she heard loud banging from the kitchen

2004
01:10:01,990 --> 01:09:59,840
footsteps on the stairs the previous

2005
01:10:04,229 --> 01:10:02,000
night she said the roommate's scream was

2006
01:10:06,390 --> 01:10:04,239
more scary than anything then she had an

2007
01:10:07,430 --> 01:10:06,400
over oversized owl attacked her car

2008
01:10:08,790 --> 01:10:07,440
which

2009
01:10:10,310 --> 01:10:08,800
that one's not impressive to me i need

2010
01:10:12,550 --> 01:10:10,320
to know how big the owl is it could just

2011
01:10:14,950 --> 01:10:12,560
be a little little bit of a pissed off

2012
01:10:16,630 --> 01:10:14,960
owl scrapes and gouges in the car and

2013
01:10:18,709 --> 01:10:16,640
then a month later she had two wine

2014
01:10:20,310 --> 01:10:18,719
bottles fly off the shelf crashed to the

2015
01:10:21,750 --> 01:10:20,320
floor her roommate's like that's it i'm

2016
01:10:24,070 --> 01:10:21,760
done this is enough i don't want

2017
01:10:25,669 --> 01:10:24,080
anything else uh she continued to see

2018
01:10:28,790 --> 01:10:25,679
shadow-like figures in her room near her

2019
01:10:30,229 --> 01:10:28,800
bed multiple colored orbs

2020
01:10:31,590 --> 01:10:30,239
and she was adamant none of this

2021
01:10:33,189 --> 01:10:31,600
happened before she had visited

2022
01:10:35,350 --> 01:10:33,199
skinwalker ranch

2023
01:10:37,990 --> 01:10:35,360
uh and and the phenomena lasted for

2024
01:10:40,470 --> 01:10:38,000
years at least for years it's consistent

2025
01:10:42,229 --> 01:10:40,480
michael it's not like shadow like beings

2026
01:10:43,669 --> 01:10:42,239
are reporting in one place it's it's

2027
01:10:48,870 --> 01:10:43,679
repeatedly

2028
01:10:51,110 --> 01:10:48,880
bigelow's wife eric davis's wife colin

2029
01:10:52,390 --> 01:10:51,120
keller his wife george knapp's wife it's

2030
01:10:54,149 --> 01:10:52,400
like if you're a wife of one of these

2031
01:10:56,550 --> 01:10:54,159
people you're saying do not go there

2032
01:10:57,990 --> 01:10:56,560
anymore because they said it was just

2033
01:10:59,750 --> 01:10:58,000
it happened even when people just went

2034
01:11:01,430 --> 01:10:59,760
to the ranch one time

2035
01:11:02,950 --> 01:11:01,440
they're taking things home with them

2036
01:11:05,030 --> 01:11:02,960
hitchhiker they call it hitchhiker

2037
01:11:06,390 --> 01:11:05,040
whatever it is nobody understands it

2038
01:11:07,910 --> 01:11:06,400
i don't know what's going on if

2039
01:11:10,790 --> 01:11:07,920
something if the visit is somehow

2040
01:11:13,030 --> 01:11:10,800
opening them up to more you know sensing

2041
01:11:14,790 --> 01:11:13,040
more and and but it's happening to

2042
01:11:15,830 --> 01:11:14,800
family members too so

2043
01:11:17,990 --> 01:11:15,840
now we'll get to the case that you

2044
01:11:19,189 --> 01:11:18,000
mentioned earlier legal california legal

2045
01:11:20,470 --> 01:11:19,199
california if you want to take us

2046
01:11:21,430 --> 01:11:20,480
through that if you remember otherwise

2047
01:11:23,350 --> 01:11:21,440
i'll read from

2048
01:11:26,310 --> 01:11:23,360
i don't really remember the details

2049
01:11:28,310 --> 01:11:26,320
probably as well as you do but um i just

2050
01:11:30,709 --> 01:11:28,320
thought it was it's just another in a

2051
01:11:32,149 --> 01:11:30,719
string of cases where

2052
01:11:33,910 --> 01:11:32,159
uh

2053
01:11:36,950 --> 01:11:33,920
there are so many things that are

2054
01:11:38,149 --> 01:11:36,960
similar in this case to

2055
01:11:41,030 --> 01:11:38,159
what must be

2056
01:11:43,510 --> 01:11:41,040
tens of thousands of of encounters or

2057
01:11:45,110 --> 01:11:43,520
sightings or events that have occurred

2058
01:11:47,510 --> 01:11:45,120
over the decades

2059
01:11:49,030 --> 01:11:47,520
if you go back through uh

2060
01:11:51,669 --> 01:11:49,040
new fork

2061
01:11:53,189 --> 01:11:51,679
or mufon's database and you just go and

2062
01:11:54,470 --> 01:11:53,199
just pull up any

2063
01:11:56,149 --> 01:11:54,480
you know you can sort it by date or

2064
01:11:59,270 --> 01:11:56,159
whatever and you just start looking at

2065
01:12:01,590 --> 01:11:59,280
interesting ones and you you come across

2066
01:12:05,590 --> 01:12:01,600
very similar sightings

2067
01:12:06,870 --> 01:12:05,600
in the past to what these folks

2068
01:12:09,030 --> 01:12:06,880
experienced

2069
01:12:11,750 --> 01:12:09,040
in the in this particular chapter

2070
01:12:14,149 --> 01:12:11,760
uh it's it's a it's a not only is it a

2071
01:12:16,390 --> 01:12:14,159
trend but it's it's consistent

2072
01:12:18,310 --> 01:12:16,400
with the total body of sort of what i

2073
01:12:19,270 --> 01:12:18,320
call the compendium of data that's out

2074
01:12:22,870 --> 01:12:19,280
there

2075
01:12:25,350 --> 01:12:22,880
is uh from a

2076
01:12:27,750 --> 01:12:25,360
enormously wide smattering of people

2077
01:12:29,910 --> 01:12:27,760
professional

2078
01:12:34,830 --> 01:12:29,920
laymen what have you going back many

2079
01:12:40,390 --> 01:12:38,229
that to me it's just it's undeniable

2080
01:12:44,149 --> 01:12:40,400
that something is going on

2081
01:12:49,189 --> 01:12:46,709
the legal california case so they they

2082
01:12:51,510 --> 01:12:49,199
saw orbs some of them had structure

2083
01:12:52,950 --> 01:12:51,520
behind you know multiple people family

2084
01:12:55,110 --> 01:12:52,960
members i think it was four witnesses

2085
01:12:56,550 --> 01:12:55,120
and all uh it was great because bass was

2086
01:12:58,790 --> 01:12:56,560
able to go out there very quickly and

2087
01:13:01,750 --> 01:12:58,800
interview everybody you know surveil the

2088
01:13:03,510 --> 01:13:01,760
the grounds document everything

2089
01:13:07,350 --> 01:13:03,520
uh there was one night with the family

2090
01:13:08,950 --> 01:13:07,360
supposedly got a being on on camera and

2091
01:13:11,270 --> 01:13:08,960
they say that all of their video was

2092
01:13:12,630 --> 01:13:11,280
deleted the next morning um they had

2093
01:13:14,310 --> 01:13:12,640
protected it you know you put a little

2094
01:13:16,790 --> 01:13:14,320
protection on the card but it got

2095
01:13:19,350 --> 01:13:16,800
deleted they don't know how

2096
01:13:20,870 --> 01:13:19,360
uh bass a bass investigator was sitting

2097
01:13:22,630 --> 01:13:20,880
next to a camera

2098
01:13:24,950 --> 01:13:22,640
you know not far away and the camera

2099
01:13:26,709 --> 01:13:24,960
went from record to off

2100
01:13:28,470 --> 01:13:26,719
stuff can happen i i would like to see

2101
01:13:30,790 --> 01:13:28,480
their data and what they captured but

2102
01:13:33,110 --> 01:13:30,800
bass experience you know severe being

2103
01:13:34,790 --> 01:13:33,120
battery drainage equipment failure which

2104
01:13:36,870 --> 01:13:34,800
we always hear about in these sites

2105
01:13:39,189 --> 01:13:36,880
whether it's crop circles or alleged

2106
01:13:41,350 --> 01:13:39,199
haunted place and that was equipment

2107
01:13:43,669 --> 01:13:41,360
failure was was uh

2108
01:13:46,229 --> 01:13:43,679
endemic across these experiments they

2109
01:13:47,910 --> 01:13:46,239
were running out there uh in the series

2110
01:13:50,470 --> 01:13:47,920
on the history channel this past this

2111
01:13:52,790 --> 01:13:50,480
past season with travis travis taylor

2112
01:13:54,390 --> 01:13:52,800
and the rest of them

2113
01:13:57,910 --> 01:13:54,400
ran a fugles group

2114
01:14:01,430 --> 01:13:57,920
they would have drained batteries um

2115
01:14:03,750 --> 01:14:01,440
phones acting really strange

2116
01:14:05,510 --> 01:14:03,760
just an entire litany of things and

2117
01:14:06,870 --> 01:14:05,520
that's yeah even cameras equipment with

2118
01:14:08,709 --> 01:14:06,880
the with the crew and i could tell you

2119
01:14:10,790 --> 01:14:08,719
it's rare for just a camera just to die

2120
01:14:12,790 --> 01:14:10,800
like that um it happens but like you

2121
01:14:14,229 --> 01:14:12,800
said it happens to so many people

2122
01:14:15,430 --> 01:14:14,239
something is draining the batteries and

2123
01:14:17,270 --> 01:14:15,440
equipment

2124
01:14:19,030 --> 01:14:17,280
so do you remember the case that it

2125
01:14:22,390 --> 01:14:19,040
wasn't spoken about in this book but it

2126
01:14:25,990 --> 01:14:24,149
similar traits

2127
01:14:28,149 --> 01:14:26,000
this defense

2128
01:14:29,030 --> 01:14:28,159
technical contractor a couple of years

2129
01:14:31,110 --> 01:14:29,040
ago

2130
01:14:32,950 --> 01:14:31,120
the story came out and robert powell

2131
01:14:34,229 --> 01:14:32,960
actually investigated it

2132
01:14:35,910 --> 01:14:34,239
i know what you're talking about and

2133
01:14:38,390 --> 01:14:35,920
it's one of my favorite cases and i

2134
01:14:40,790 --> 01:14:38,400
forgot i can't find it again

2135
01:14:43,189 --> 01:14:40,800
yeah i've got it somewhere i can i can

2136
01:14:45,189 --> 01:14:43,199
probably send it to you but this guy was

2137
01:14:47,270 --> 01:14:45,199
very highly technical

2138
01:14:48,470 --> 01:14:47,280
uh a defense

2139
01:14:52,229 --> 01:14:48,480
contractor

2140
01:14:54,149 --> 01:14:52,239
i think he was an uh he was an engineer

2141
01:14:57,270 --> 01:14:54,159
and he's on this hunting trip and he's

2142
01:15:00,229 --> 01:14:57,280
got they have everybody has a cell phone

2143
01:15:02,550 --> 01:15:00,239
they have some quite capable fairly

2144
01:15:05,510 --> 01:15:02,560
expensive camera equipment with them all

2145
01:15:07,669 --> 01:15:05,520
the batteries are charged and he's got

2146
01:15:09,990 --> 01:15:07,679
a nice hunting rifle with a very high

2147
01:15:11,030 --> 01:15:10,000
powered scope and they see that barbell

2148
01:15:13,590 --> 01:15:11,040
shaped

2149
01:15:15,430 --> 01:15:13,600
ufo

2150
01:15:17,270 --> 01:15:15,440
and he's trying to get his cameras out

2151
01:15:19,270 --> 01:15:17,280
to take

2152
01:15:21,830 --> 01:15:19,280
photographs but the batteries are

2153
01:15:24,310 --> 01:15:21,840
drained and he ends up having to rely

2154
01:15:26,310 --> 01:15:24,320
solely on trying a to calm everybody

2155
01:15:27,430 --> 01:15:26,320
down because i think half of the guys

2156
01:15:29,110 --> 01:15:27,440
that were in the car with them they were

2157
01:15:30,550 --> 01:15:29,120
on a hunting trip and

2158
01:15:32,550 --> 01:15:30,560
you know these are guys that are used to

2159
01:15:34,550 --> 01:15:32,560
being out out in the woods

2160
01:15:35,990 --> 01:15:34,560
they're well armed and they're wanting

2161
01:15:39,189 --> 01:15:36,000
to highten it and he's trying to get

2162
01:15:40,709 --> 01:15:39,199
them to calm down be still

2163
01:15:41,910 --> 01:15:40,719
and let him

2164
01:15:44,229 --> 01:15:41,920
fully

2165
01:15:45,669 --> 01:15:44,239
soak this experience in as he's looking

2166
01:15:47,669 --> 01:15:45,679
at it through these very high-powered

2167
01:15:48,630 --> 01:15:47,679
this high-powered rifle scope

2168
01:15:52,310 --> 01:15:48,640
and he

2169
01:15:55,030 --> 01:15:52,320
documents it in fascinating detail but

2170
01:15:56,390 --> 01:15:55,040
many of the same characteristics of of

2171
01:15:58,149 --> 01:15:56,400
what was going on with the technical

2172
01:15:59,669 --> 01:15:58,159
equipment that they had his phones his

2173
01:16:01,510 --> 01:15:59,679
cameras

2174
01:16:04,390 --> 01:16:01,520
are the same that we're seeing here

2175
01:16:06,310 --> 01:16:04,400
described in this book and described in

2176
01:16:08,550 --> 01:16:06,320
the in the series with travis taylor and

2177
01:16:10,950 --> 01:16:08,560
the rest of those guys

2178
01:16:12,550 --> 01:16:10,960
in the most recent visits to the site

2179
01:16:14,149 --> 01:16:12,560
yeah and by the way

2180
01:16:15,669 --> 01:16:14,159
as far as

2181
01:16:18,870 --> 01:16:15,679
i don't know if they're i guess cast

2182
01:16:21,510 --> 01:16:18,880
members travis taylor eric bard

2183
01:16:23,590 --> 01:16:21,520
and there's one more oh thomas winterton

2184
01:16:25,990 --> 01:16:23,600
naoh the stale had the hitchhikers type

2185
01:16:26,790 --> 01:16:26,000
stuff happen too i asked brandon fugle

2186
01:16:28,709 --> 01:16:26,800
today

2187
01:16:30,390 --> 01:16:28,719
if the crew the production crew had it

2188
01:16:32,709 --> 01:16:30,400
because one of my friends was one of the

2189
01:16:34,870 --> 01:16:32,719
executive producers on skinwalker and

2190
01:16:36,790 --> 01:16:34,880
i'm like my first as just as an off

2191
01:16:38,870 --> 01:16:36,800
comment i'm like hey if you need camera

2192
01:16:40,709 --> 01:16:38,880
operators let me know and then i'm like

2193
01:16:42,630 --> 01:16:40,719
if he offers me a job i'm not taking it

2194
01:16:43,510 --> 01:16:42,640
i have no interest in bringing anything

2195
01:16:45,189 --> 01:16:43,520
home

2196
01:16:46,870 --> 01:16:45,199
i have no interest in being on the ranch

2197
01:16:48,310 --> 01:16:46,880
i don't need to see it i don't need to

2198
01:16:50,390 --> 01:16:48,320
be anywhere near it i just don't need

2199
01:16:52,149 --> 01:16:50,400
that in my life uh they continue to do

2200
01:16:53,830 --> 01:16:52,159
it and these people work on the show so

2201
01:16:55,270 --> 01:16:53,840
more power to them but we can talk about

2202
01:16:57,910 --> 01:16:55,280
that later whether or not that's a good

2203
01:16:59,590 --> 01:16:57,920
thing uh the next case oh by the way and

2204
01:17:01,270 --> 01:16:59,600
the family in california

2205
01:17:03,910 --> 01:17:01,280
where they saw the orbs and the

2206
01:17:05,830 --> 01:17:03,920
equipment supposedly went off and the

2207
01:17:07,030 --> 01:17:05,840
the card was deleted with footage and

2208
01:17:08,310 --> 01:17:07,040
pictures

2209
01:17:09,669 --> 01:17:08,320
all throughout the rest of that month

2210
01:17:11,110 --> 01:17:09,679
they experienced the low-level

2211
01:17:13,669 --> 01:17:11,120
poltergeist effects so it's pretty

2212
01:17:15,910 --> 01:17:13,679
consistent uh the next one is

2213
01:17:17,750 --> 01:17:15,920
the case it's like everybody's favorite

2214
01:17:20,550 --> 01:17:17,760
case even though it's got not great

2215
01:17:22,950 --> 01:17:20,560
outcome so in bend oregon the guy's

2216
01:17:25,350 --> 01:17:22,960
traveling he's a ron beck ron becker a

2217
01:17:27,110 --> 01:17:25,360
biotechnologist driving down the road in

2218
01:17:28,550 --> 01:17:27,120
the highway with his daughter

2219
01:17:30,950 --> 01:17:28,560
2005

2220
01:17:33,110 --> 01:17:30,960
she notices three orbs on the side or

2221
01:17:34,790 --> 01:17:33,120
whatever they are three objects

2222
01:17:36,070 --> 01:17:34,800
she later would say as soon as i noticed

2223
01:17:37,510 --> 01:17:36,080
them they come in

2224
01:17:38,709 --> 01:17:37,520
two of them come into the car i don't

2225
01:17:40,870 --> 01:17:38,719
know if they went through the window if

2226
01:17:42,870 --> 01:17:40,880
the window was open and one of them goes

2227
01:17:44,870 --> 01:17:42,880
through her father's

2228
01:17:46,470 --> 01:17:44,880
shoulder and exit out exits out the

2229
01:17:49,990 --> 01:17:46,480
other side

2230
01:17:51,669 --> 01:17:50,000
and he's immediately started feeling

2231
01:17:53,590 --> 01:17:51,679
nauseous and sick

2232
01:17:55,750 --> 01:17:53,600
he has a dream

2233
01:17:57,270 --> 01:17:55,760
and in the dream that night

2234
01:17:58,550 --> 01:17:57,280
they say we're going to fix this he

2235
01:17:59,990 --> 01:17:58,560
wakes up the next morning he feels

2236
01:18:03,590 --> 01:18:00,000
better but then he goes to work and he

2237
01:18:07,189 --> 01:18:05,990
he winds up getting a very rare form of

2238
01:18:08,070 --> 01:18:07,199
cancer

2239
01:18:08,870 --> 01:18:08,080
and

2240
01:18:10,550 --> 01:18:08,880
she

2241
01:18:12,630 --> 01:18:10,560
goes back to connecticut that was in

2242
01:18:14,149 --> 01:18:12,640
oregon she starts she has three college

2243
01:18:16,550 --> 01:18:14,159
friends she lives with

2244
01:18:18,070 --> 01:18:16,560
uh and once again paranormal events are

2245
01:18:19,590 --> 01:18:18,080
happening in her house she sees dark

2246
01:18:21,669 --> 01:18:19,600
shadowy figures

2247
01:18:23,830 --> 01:18:21,679
heavy footsteps going up and down the

2248
01:18:25,110 --> 01:18:23,840
stairs bizarre poltergeist activity and

2249
01:18:27,030 --> 01:18:25,120
went off for two years in her

2250
01:18:29,110 --> 01:18:27,040
connecticut house after her dad had the

2251
01:18:30,790 --> 01:18:29,120
experience and that's the first case i

2252
01:18:33,189 --> 01:18:30,800
think where they talk about somebody

2253
01:18:34,870 --> 01:18:33,199
getting injured

2254
01:18:36,149 --> 01:18:34,880
so and it's not at skinwalker ranch

2255
01:18:37,510 --> 01:18:36,159
because i was talking online the other

2256
01:18:39,030 --> 01:18:37,520
day i'm like

2257
01:18:40,950 --> 01:18:39,040
do you think we should even have people

2258
01:18:43,189 --> 01:18:40,960
go to skinwalker ranch because they talk

2259
01:18:45,590 --> 01:18:43,199
about it as an effective infectious

2260
01:18:47,030 --> 01:18:45,600
infectious agent you go there or

2261
01:18:49,830 --> 01:18:47,040
wherever

2262
01:18:51,350 --> 01:18:49,840
you pick up a hitchhiker you go home and

2263
01:18:53,430 --> 01:18:51,360
then you spread it to your family and

2264
01:18:55,110 --> 01:18:53,440
maybe the neighborhood too

2265
01:18:56,390 --> 01:18:55,120
so i was like saying maybe we shouldn't

2266
01:18:58,070 --> 01:18:56,400
go there and then people are like no we

2267
01:18:59,189 --> 01:18:58,080
gotta study that i'm like i understand

2268
01:19:00,630 --> 01:18:59,199
that

2269
01:19:03,110 --> 01:19:00,640
um

2270
01:19:05,270 --> 01:19:03,120
and this is a good time to bring up

2271
01:19:07,910 --> 01:19:05,280
something that kevin day said but i know

2272
01:19:09,590 --> 01:19:07,920
i'm pretty sure nobody's ever seen this

2273
01:19:10,950 --> 01:19:09,600
and

2274
01:19:25,590 --> 01:19:10,960
i

2275
01:19:27,830 --> 01:19:25,600
so he says

2276
01:19:30,550 --> 01:19:27,840
and keith basterfield saved this comment

2277
01:19:32,310 --> 01:19:30,560
on facebook kevin day says the aliens

2278
01:19:34,709 --> 01:19:32,320
have a good damn reason for not

2279
01:19:37,189 --> 01:19:34,719
contacting us they are afraid of us

2280
01:19:38,550 --> 01:19:37,199
afraid of what would happen why because

2281
01:19:40,630 --> 01:19:38,560
the last time they interacted with

2282
01:19:42,870 --> 01:19:40,640
mankind the result was a solar

2283
01:19:44,870 --> 01:19:42,880
system-wide catastrophe the previous

2284
01:19:46,790 --> 01:19:44,880
civilization on earth was all but erased

2285
01:19:48,870 --> 01:19:46,800
completely and i'm like

2286
01:19:51,270 --> 01:19:48,880
i don't know about this he goes how he

2287
01:19:54,310 --> 01:19:51,280
says apparently by simply engaging with

2288
01:19:56,870 --> 01:19:54,320
humans our brains become rewired making

2289
01:19:58,790 --> 01:19:56,880
us far more intelligent and capable

2290
01:20:00,470 --> 01:19:58,800
during the tic tac ufo incident i took

2291
01:20:03,030 --> 01:20:00,480
the liberty of viewing the craft from

2292
01:20:04,790 --> 01:20:03,040
the ship's big eyes binoculars something

2293
01:20:06,870 --> 01:20:04,800
happened to me in that moment in my life

2294
01:20:08,870 --> 01:20:06,880
has never been the same since

2295
01:20:10,790 --> 01:20:08,880
uh i'm apparently quite capable of

2296
01:20:13,030 --> 01:20:10,800
manifesting things circumstances and

2297
01:20:15,750 --> 01:20:13,040
outcomes okay i don't know if any of

2298
01:20:17,350 --> 01:20:15,760
that is true but he brings up a point if

2299
01:20:18,950 --> 01:20:17,360
if people are having interactions with

2300
01:20:21,270 --> 01:20:18,960
orbs or craft and then having all this

2301
01:20:22,790 --> 01:20:21,280
stuff happen at home

2302
01:20:24,790 --> 01:20:22,800
maybe it's not a good thing we all have

2303
01:20:27,110 --> 01:20:24,800
we if we all have interaction and maybe

2304
01:20:29,270 --> 01:20:27,120
maybe not the entire phenomenon is

2305
01:20:31,110 --> 01:20:29,280
related to that kind of you know

2306
01:20:32,950 --> 01:20:31,120
negative outcome you know other people

2307
01:20:34,229 --> 01:20:32,960
have amazing experiences they don't get

2308
01:20:35,910 --> 01:20:34,239
sick

2309
01:20:37,189 --> 01:20:35,920
uh they don't get you know they don't

2310
01:20:41,030 --> 01:20:37,199
have

2311
01:20:41,990 --> 01:20:41,040
their lives are changed in a positive

2312
01:20:43,830 --> 01:20:42,000
way i'm not sure if that's an

2313
01:20:45,750 --> 01:20:43,840
intentional outcome or just a side

2314
01:20:47,510 --> 01:20:45,760
effect of whatever experience they're

2315
01:20:48,950 --> 01:20:47,520
having even abductions some abductees

2316
01:20:50,709 --> 01:20:48,960
have a great experience and it changes

2317
01:20:52,310 --> 01:20:50,719
their lives so i don't know how what do

2318
01:20:54,550 --> 01:20:52,320
you think about

2319
01:20:55,590 --> 01:20:54,560
a lot i just said

2320
01:20:57,110 --> 01:20:55,600
well

2321
01:20:58,390 --> 01:20:57,120
i'm not really sure how to take kevin

2322
01:21:00,550 --> 01:20:58,400
day's

2323
01:21:02,550 --> 01:21:00,560
comments outside of his

2324
01:21:05,510 --> 01:21:02,560
the ones that are more professionally

2325
01:21:07,750 --> 01:21:05,520
oriented towards the day well just just

2326
01:21:09,750 --> 01:21:07,760
just but just what he said about how

2327
01:21:12,629 --> 01:21:09,760
interacting if we interacted with this

2328
01:21:14,629 --> 01:21:12,639
on a large scale just assume whatever's

2329
01:21:16,390 --> 01:21:14,639
happening what's his basis for saying

2330
01:21:17,910 --> 01:21:16,400
that though that sounds well

2331
01:21:19,750 --> 01:21:17,920
what i'm saying what my basis is look

2332
01:21:22,149 --> 01:21:19,760
what happens on skinwalker ranch these

2333
01:21:23,990 --> 01:21:22,159
people for years this is happening so

2334
01:21:25,430 --> 01:21:24,000
let's just say in theory you send a

2335
01:21:26,870 --> 01:21:25,440
million people to skinwalker ranch they

2336
01:21:28,550 --> 01:21:26,880
go home to their families and it creates

2337
01:21:29,669 --> 01:21:28,560
havoc in a million households you know

2338
01:21:31,430 --> 01:21:29,679
what i'm saying

2339
01:21:33,910 --> 01:21:31,440
you could take kevin but you can take

2340
01:21:36,070 --> 01:21:33,920
kevin day's comments out of it

2341
01:21:39,270 --> 01:21:36,080
what i'm basically saying i think these

2342
01:21:40,550 --> 01:21:39,280
folks comments in in the book that we're

2343
01:21:41,830 --> 01:21:40,560
talking about

2344
01:21:43,669 --> 01:21:41,840
that is uh

2345
01:21:46,550 --> 01:21:43,679
that's one set of

2346
01:21:48,229 --> 01:21:46,560
experiences coming from that that for me

2347
01:21:50,070 --> 01:21:48,239
personally has an ultra high

2348
01:21:52,790 --> 01:21:50,080
believability factor because of their

2349
01:21:53,910 --> 01:21:52,800
backgrounds because of who they are

2350
01:21:56,149 --> 01:21:53,920
because of

2351
01:21:57,990 --> 01:21:56,159
what it takes for them to attain the

2352
01:22:00,470 --> 01:21:58,000
positions that they

2353
01:22:01,510 --> 01:22:00,480
are either working or worked in for the

2354
01:22:04,470 --> 01:22:01,520
government

2355
01:22:05,590 --> 01:22:04,480
so the believability factor is extremely

2356
01:22:08,830 --> 01:22:05,600
high

2357
01:22:10,950 --> 01:22:08,840
in their in their descriptions of their

2358
01:22:12,070 --> 01:22:10,960
experiences um

2359
01:22:14,709 --> 01:22:12,080
so really

2360
01:22:17,189 --> 01:22:14,719
as far as kevin days i i'm not

2361
01:22:19,030 --> 01:22:17,199
as far as what i think about about that

2362
01:22:22,070 --> 01:22:19,040
i mean that ties in with that ties in

2363
01:22:26,470 --> 01:22:22,080
with tom delong's comments about um

2364
01:22:30,070 --> 01:22:26,480
you know us getting so uh if we become

2365
01:22:31,590 --> 01:22:30,080
so proficient again as we supposedly

2366
01:22:34,229 --> 01:22:31,600
once were

2367
01:22:35,189 --> 01:22:34,239
with our abilities in the consciousness

2368
01:22:38,550 --> 01:22:35,199
realm

2369
01:22:41,270 --> 01:22:38,560
to whether it's communicate or sense

2370
01:22:44,229 --> 01:22:41,280
or interact with

2371
01:22:45,669 --> 01:22:44,239
other worlds i mean i i know where he

2372
01:22:46,550 --> 01:22:45,679
claims he's getting that information

2373
01:22:48,629 --> 01:22:46,560
from

2374
01:22:51,430 --> 01:22:48,639
supposedly his advisors

2375
01:22:53,910 --> 01:22:51,440
who are similarly qualified people at

2376
01:22:56,629 --> 01:22:53,920
least from the standpoint

2377
01:22:58,790 --> 01:22:56,639
of having their backgrounds investigated

2378
01:23:01,430 --> 01:22:58,800
and being granted very high level

2379
01:23:03,270 --> 01:23:01,440
clearances

2380
01:23:04,229 --> 01:23:03,280
there's a loose thread tying all of that

2381
01:23:07,270 --> 01:23:04,239
in there

2382
01:23:09,189 --> 01:23:07,280
all these things together um

2383
01:23:11,590 --> 01:23:09,199
as far as

2384
01:23:14,070 --> 01:23:11,600
our interacting with this phenomenon and

2385
01:23:17,350 --> 01:23:14,080
and the danger it brings

2386
01:23:21,510 --> 01:23:17,360
to me it seems that

2387
01:23:24,550 --> 01:23:21,520
not only from this book but others um

2388
01:23:27,430 --> 01:23:24,560
something is very clearly going on

2389
01:23:29,990 --> 01:23:27,440
is it a is it a warning or is it an

2390
01:23:31,350 --> 01:23:30,000
enticement is it an invitation is it a

2391
01:23:32,790 --> 01:23:31,360
is it is it

2392
01:23:35,430 --> 01:23:32,800
is it uh

2393
01:23:37,430 --> 01:23:35,440
designed to peak curiosity

2394
01:23:39,350 --> 01:23:37,440
to for us to try to continue to peel

2395
01:23:41,510 --> 01:23:39,360
back layers of the onion

2396
01:23:44,070 --> 01:23:41,520
or is it

2397
01:23:46,870 --> 01:23:44,080
somehow trying to um

2398
01:23:48,470 --> 01:23:46,880
steer us away or ward us off or

2399
01:23:49,510 --> 01:23:48,480
you know i i don't know

2400
01:23:50,550 --> 01:23:49,520
but it is

2401
01:23:52,790 --> 01:23:50,560
certainly

2402
01:23:55,910 --> 01:23:52,800
there there are different ways to to

2403
01:23:57,590 --> 01:23:55,920
interpret what's going on here

2404
01:23:59,550 --> 01:23:57,600
um it is

2405
01:24:03,030 --> 01:23:59,560
obviously very

2406
01:24:05,510 --> 01:24:03,040
unnatural um

2407
01:24:06,870 --> 01:24:05,520
could be disturbing could be intriguing

2408
01:24:09,750 --> 01:24:06,880
could be both

2409
01:24:11,990 --> 01:24:09,760
would be exciting

2410
01:24:13,590 --> 01:24:12,000
yeah it's all good it's all okay with me

2411
01:24:15,030 --> 01:24:13,600
even even some of the scariest stuff

2412
01:24:16,709 --> 01:24:15,040
although i don't want to see the scary

2413
01:24:18,070 --> 01:24:16,719
stuff happen but when you start getting

2414
01:24:19,669 --> 01:24:18,080
into

2415
01:24:21,270 --> 01:24:19,679
people getting cancer and stuff like

2416
01:24:22,470 --> 01:24:21,280
that it's like how do we stop this

2417
01:24:24,550 --> 01:24:22,480
program this program should have

2418
01:24:26,310 --> 01:24:24,560
continued even just for that to figure

2419
01:24:28,229 --> 01:24:26,320
out what the hell is going on and in the

2420
01:24:30,310 --> 01:24:28,239
book they're like were they just in the

2421
01:24:31,669 --> 01:24:30,320
wrong place at the wrong time was it

2422
01:24:33,430 --> 01:24:31,679
intentional and then you hear the guy

2423
01:24:35,510 --> 01:24:33,440
have a dream saying you know the one in

2424
01:24:37,270 --> 01:24:35,520
oregon who had the orb go through him

2425
01:24:39,270 --> 01:24:37,280
and in the dream this being tells him

2426
01:24:40,950 --> 01:24:39,280
we're gonna fix what we did you know

2427
01:24:43,189 --> 01:24:40,960
makes you think oh maybe it was accident

2428
01:24:44,709 --> 01:24:43,199
but then the guy gets cancer so maybe

2429
01:24:46,870 --> 01:24:44,719
they can't fix it i don't know and i'm

2430
01:24:49,110 --> 01:24:46,880
open to that i don't think it was i

2431
01:24:51,030 --> 01:24:49,120
don't think it was just

2432
01:24:53,189 --> 01:24:51,040
i think it was intentional entering the

2433
01:24:55,270 --> 01:24:53,199
car you would think and obviously i'm

2434
01:24:57,510 --> 01:24:55,280
trying to i'm trying to think of what an

2435
01:24:59,030 --> 01:24:57,520
orb is thinking which is ridiculous but

2436
01:25:00,790 --> 01:24:59,040
it's like if they're entering at this

2437
01:25:02,950 --> 01:25:00,800
point you would think they know

2438
01:25:04,629 --> 01:25:02,960
their technology if we have close

2439
01:25:06,470 --> 01:25:04,639
contact it's going to cause

2440
01:25:07,430 --> 01:25:06,480
you know it's radiation effect it seems

2441
01:25:10,709 --> 01:25:07,440
like

2442
01:25:12,310 --> 01:25:10,719
but you know we have the blue orbs and

2443
01:25:14,229 --> 01:25:12,320
the blue orbs are almost always negative

2444
01:25:16,390 --> 01:25:14,239
the three dogs at skinwalker the story

2445
01:25:19,270 --> 01:25:16,400
goes three three orbs with terry and

2446
01:25:21,189 --> 01:25:19,280
gwen sherman you know one orb

2447
01:25:24,070 --> 01:25:21,199
three dogs chase it the dogs wound up in

2448
01:25:25,669 --> 01:25:24,080
a grease pile they're dead um

2449
01:25:28,229 --> 01:25:25,679
two months after

2450
01:25:31,030 --> 01:25:28,239
uh skinwalker ranch visit kostagan and

2451
01:25:34,070 --> 01:25:31,040
his wife are walking a dog

2452
01:25:35,590 --> 01:25:34,080
there's a softball sized blue orb grazes

2453
01:25:37,830 --> 01:25:35,600
his wife's shoulder and then takes off

2454
01:25:40,229 --> 01:25:37,840
she got really really sick

2455
01:25:41,990 --> 01:25:40,239
uh after and this is another thing after

2456
01:25:43,830 --> 01:25:42,000
additional visits to the doctor

2457
01:25:46,629 --> 01:25:43,840
including including neurologists

2458
01:25:48,149 --> 01:25:46,639
immunologists and other specialists

2459
01:25:49,910 --> 01:25:48,159
his wife

2460
01:25:52,870 --> 01:25:49,920
bizarre symptoms were eventually

2461
01:25:55,590 --> 01:25:52,880
diagnosed she had a ship

2462
01:25:57,350 --> 01:25:55,600
hashimoto's thyroiditis and an

2463
01:25:59,669 --> 01:25:57,360
autoimmune disease in which the immune

2464
01:26:01,270 --> 01:25:59,679
system attacks the thyroid gland

2465
01:26:05,430 --> 01:26:01,280
um

2466
01:26:09,350 --> 01:26:07,510
the autoimmune immune disease is very

2467
01:26:11,430 --> 01:26:09,360
common with people who have that kind of

2468
01:26:12,870 --> 01:26:11,440
interaction so

2469
01:26:15,189 --> 01:26:12,880
you know

2470
01:26:16,550 --> 01:26:15,199
i don't know i don't know it's

2471
01:26:19,669 --> 01:26:16,560
i i i

2472
01:26:23,990 --> 01:26:21,750
there's evidence for this

2473
01:26:25,990 --> 01:26:24,000
for for sort of both

2474
01:26:26,950 --> 01:26:26,000
both outcomes

2475
01:26:28,709 --> 01:26:26,960
there's

2476
01:26:30,070 --> 01:26:28,719
more recently in this book these these

2477
01:26:30,460 --> 01:26:30,080
orbs

2478
01:26:32,229 --> 01:26:30,470
and

2479
01:26:33,910 --> 01:26:32,239
[Music]

2480
01:26:35,750 --> 01:26:33,920
the illnesses

2481
01:26:37,430 --> 01:26:35,760
that

2482
01:26:40,550 --> 01:26:37,440
these folks had

2483
01:26:42,470 --> 01:26:40,560
after uh whether it's non-ionizing or

2484
01:26:43,990 --> 01:26:42,480
ionizing radiation

2485
01:26:46,149 --> 01:26:44,000
what is that can you explain what

2486
01:26:48,070 --> 01:26:46,159
non-ionizing radiation is because i see

2487
01:26:49,590 --> 01:26:48,080
that a lot

2488
01:26:52,070 --> 01:26:49,600
i used to

2489
01:26:54,550 --> 01:26:52,080
understand it until i read

2490
01:26:55,350 --> 01:26:54,560
uh the condone report

2491
01:26:56,629 --> 01:26:55,360
and

2492
01:26:59,830 --> 01:26:56,639
um undyne

2493
01:27:02,870 --> 01:26:59,840
the project condone report which is um

2494
01:27:05,510 --> 01:27:02,880
it's uap in the uk air defense region

2495
01:27:06,790 --> 01:27:05,520
it's a multi-volume report done by the

2496
01:27:08,790 --> 01:27:06,800
british government

2497
01:27:11,590 --> 01:27:08,800
that was finally released

2498
01:27:12,870 --> 01:27:11,600
and they talk about though they do not

2499
01:27:14,790 --> 01:27:12,880
name him

2500
01:27:17,430 --> 01:27:14,800
i believe that they are referencing in

2501
01:27:19,750 --> 01:27:17,440
that report and actually

2502
01:27:20,709 --> 01:27:19,760
it was used

2503
01:27:24,870 --> 01:27:20,719
as

2504
01:27:25,990 --> 01:27:24,880
by the department of veterans affairs

2505
01:27:27,830 --> 01:27:26,000
when

2506
01:27:31,030 --> 01:27:27,840
one of the witnesses one of the guys

2507
01:27:33,350 --> 01:27:31,040
that was involved in rendelsham forest

2508
01:27:36,950 --> 01:27:33,360
had the heart valve issue

2509
01:27:39,910 --> 01:27:36,960
that developed after his encounter

2510
01:27:41,590 --> 01:27:39,920
um with he was with sergeant jim

2511
01:27:43,430 --> 01:27:41,600
peniston

2512
01:27:45,510 --> 01:27:43,440
actually john

2513
01:27:47,430 --> 01:27:45,520
john burroughs right all right so he had

2514
01:27:49,669 --> 01:27:47,440
to go through the office

2515
01:27:50,550 --> 01:27:49,679
of senator john mccain

2516
01:27:53,110 --> 01:27:50,560
uh

2517
01:27:56,470 --> 01:27:53,120
to ultimately get his

2518
01:27:58,550 --> 01:27:56,480
medical records which for some reason

2519
01:28:00,550 --> 01:27:58,560
which i believe is now understood or

2520
01:28:02,870 --> 01:28:00,560
explained anyway

2521
01:28:05,669 --> 01:28:02,880
they had been classified and up to that

2522
01:28:07,750 --> 01:28:05,679
point his va doctors

2523
01:28:09,270 --> 01:28:07,760
were at a wit's end trying to figure out

2524
01:28:10,790 --> 01:28:09,280
what was wrong with him

2525
01:28:13,430 --> 01:28:10,800
until they

2526
01:28:15,990 --> 01:28:13,440
understood that the

2527
01:28:17,110 --> 01:28:16,000
that his condition arose from the

2528
01:28:17,990 --> 01:28:17,120
effects

2529
01:28:20,390 --> 01:28:18,000
of

2530
01:28:23,189 --> 01:28:20,400
non-ionizing radiation

2531
01:28:24,550 --> 01:28:23,199
so in the condyle report it talks about

2532
01:28:27,350 --> 01:28:24,560
um

2533
01:28:30,149 --> 01:28:27,360
physiological effects

2534
01:28:32,229 --> 01:28:30,159
and it goes into detail about how

2535
01:28:35,270 --> 01:28:32,239
folks that have been in proximity

2536
01:28:37,430 --> 01:28:35,280
doesn't name names doesn't name cases

2537
01:28:38,390 --> 01:28:37,440
it's pretty high level but it talks

2538
01:28:40,709 --> 01:28:38,400
about

2539
01:28:43,910 --> 01:28:40,719
there being damaging physiological

2540
01:28:46,629 --> 01:28:43,920
effects from being uh in proximity to

2541
01:28:47,430 --> 01:28:46,639
these vehicles when they're powered up

2542
01:28:49,590 --> 01:28:47,440
so

2543
01:28:52,790 --> 01:28:49,600
in the one in the one case you've got

2544
01:28:54,070 --> 01:28:52,800
jim peniston who claims that he ran his

2545
01:28:55,510 --> 01:28:54,080
hand across

2546
01:28:56,470 --> 01:28:55,520
the vehicle while it was sitting on the

2547
01:28:58,950 --> 01:28:56,480
ground

2548
01:29:00,470 --> 01:28:58,960
burroughs i believe was was nearby when

2549
01:29:03,189 --> 01:29:00,480
the when this

2550
01:29:06,070 --> 01:29:03,199
object seemed to sort of

2551
01:29:08,070 --> 01:29:06,080
flare up and explode into

2552
01:29:09,510 --> 01:29:08,080
you know a million bright balls and then

2553
01:29:11,510 --> 01:29:09,520
disappear

2554
01:29:14,709 --> 01:29:11,520
and then came to later

2555
01:29:17,270 --> 01:29:14,719
but you've got you've got cases

2556
01:29:20,149 --> 01:29:17,280
where people are damaged

2557
01:29:23,669 --> 01:29:20,159
in some way their physiology is is is

2558
01:29:27,430 --> 01:29:25,830
they're made sick or ill

2559
01:29:29,910 --> 01:29:27,440
perhaps it's cancer which would indicate

2560
01:29:31,990 --> 01:29:29,920
some sort of radiation

2561
01:29:33,830 --> 01:29:32,000
and then you've got cases that jacques

2562
01:29:36,310 --> 01:29:33,840
valet writes about

2563
01:29:37,750 --> 01:29:36,320
where people are actually healed

2564
01:29:38,709 --> 01:29:37,760
and there was a gentleman i forget the

2565
01:29:39,590 --> 01:29:38,719
case

2566
01:29:43,189 --> 01:29:39,600
i don't know if it's in the

2567
01:29:44,870 --> 01:29:43,199
confrontations book or um

2568
01:29:46,550 --> 01:29:44,880
one of his more other more recent books

2569
01:29:47,830 --> 01:29:46,560
where he's talking about a guy who had a

2570
01:29:49,910 --> 01:29:47,840
war wound

2571
01:29:52,070 --> 01:29:49,920
in algeria

2572
01:29:53,669 --> 01:29:52,080
and it was something related to his leg

2573
01:29:54,550 --> 01:29:53,679
or his knee

2574
01:29:56,950 --> 01:29:54,560
and

2575
01:29:58,629 --> 01:29:56,960
he had this encounter out in his

2576
01:30:01,189 --> 01:29:58,639
on his farm

2577
01:30:03,590 --> 01:30:01,199
and he went and woke his wife up and uh

2578
01:30:05,669 --> 01:30:03,600
so there was more than one witness

2579
01:30:08,310 --> 01:30:05,679
and and basically

2580
01:30:10,470 --> 01:30:08,320
this guy's condition he had a limp there

2581
01:30:12,310 --> 01:30:10,480
was a doctor in town that had treated

2582
01:30:14,470 --> 01:30:12,320
him for this um

2583
01:30:16,550 --> 01:30:14,480
this war wound and this other condition

2584
01:30:18,149 --> 01:30:16,560
that had developed as a result of it i

2585
01:30:20,390 --> 01:30:18,159
believe

2586
01:30:23,030 --> 01:30:20,400
and then after this event

2587
01:30:24,870 --> 01:30:23,040
he literally minutes afterwards he

2588
01:30:27,910 --> 01:30:24,880
realized that he was not walking with a

2589
01:30:30,070 --> 01:30:27,920
lymph anymore and this scar was healed

2590
01:30:31,590 --> 01:30:30,080
and he actually fled town for a number

2591
01:30:33,669 --> 01:30:31,600
of days because he didn't want to run

2592
01:30:34,629 --> 01:30:33,679
into that doctor that had been treating

2593
01:30:37,270 --> 01:30:34,639
him

2594
01:30:39,910 --> 01:30:37,280
for months or years because the doctor

2595
01:30:42,790 --> 01:30:39,920
would see him walking normally and he

2596
01:30:45,830 --> 01:30:42,800
didn't have an explanation for it and

2597
01:30:49,110 --> 01:30:45,840
jacqueline found out all of this

2598
01:30:51,270 --> 01:30:49,120
in subsequent interviews with this guy

2599
01:30:52,629 --> 01:30:51,280
well after this guy had because he i

2600
01:30:55,990 --> 01:30:52,639
think he did

2601
01:30:58,229 --> 01:30:56,000
initially report this sighting

2602
01:31:01,590 --> 01:30:58,239
but didn't give investigators all of the

2603
01:31:03,990 --> 01:31:01,600
details and so valet as he writes about

2604
01:31:06,149 --> 01:31:04,000
in his books he finds more value in

2605
01:31:08,070 --> 01:31:06,159
approaching people that have been

2606
01:31:09,110 --> 01:31:08,080
involved in these encounters

2607
01:31:11,110 --> 01:31:09,120
months

2608
01:31:13,030 --> 01:31:11,120
or years later perhaps after

2609
01:31:14,790 --> 01:31:13,040
everything's died down when they're

2610
01:31:16,550 --> 01:31:14,800
they're less spooked about talking to

2611
01:31:17,270 --> 01:31:16,560
researchers and reporters and what have

2612
01:31:20,149 --> 01:31:17,280
you

2613
01:31:21,910 --> 01:31:20,159
and that's where he finds that he gleans

2614
01:31:24,629 --> 01:31:21,920
the most useful data

2615
01:31:25,830 --> 01:31:24,639
is once the all the furor has has

2616
01:31:27,430 --> 01:31:25,840
subsided

2617
01:31:28,310 --> 01:31:27,440
he can

2618
01:31:29,830 --> 01:31:28,320
get in there and do his own

2619
01:31:32,310 --> 01:31:29,840
investigation and and this one

2620
01:31:34,310 --> 01:31:32,320
particular case i can find it for you

2621
01:31:36,550 --> 01:31:34,320
is it

2622
01:31:38,310 --> 01:31:36,560
it's a case of healing somebody sent me

2623
01:31:40,149 --> 01:31:38,320
a book somebody tweeted a book there's

2624
01:31:42,229 --> 01:31:40,159
an entire book on healing related to

2625
01:31:43,910 --> 01:31:42,239
ufos so yeah i realize that happens and

2626
01:31:47,910 --> 01:31:43,920
it makes it really even more complicated

2627
01:31:49,910 --> 01:31:47,920
for me i once asked somebody who was

2628
01:31:51,830 --> 01:31:49,920
they have more access to data than we do

2629
01:31:52,550 --> 01:31:51,840
in the ufo world i'm like do you think

2630
01:31:56,629 --> 01:31:52,560
it's

2631
01:31:58,709 --> 01:31:56,639
or is it multiple and they're like

2632
01:32:00,310 --> 01:31:58,719
do not know it's so confusing you know

2633
01:32:01,830 --> 01:32:00,320
just when we think we have a grasp and

2634
01:32:04,229 --> 01:32:01,840
something happens

2635
01:32:06,550 --> 01:32:04,239
and the the quote was it's a show

2636
01:32:08,229 --> 01:32:06,560
that was the comment um so it's like if

2637
01:32:09,830 --> 01:32:08,239
somebody like that doesn't know it's

2638
01:32:10,950 --> 01:32:09,840
like i have no chance so i was like yeah

2639
01:32:13,110 --> 01:32:10,960
my everything i talk about is

2640
01:32:15,669 --> 01:32:13,120
speculation when it comes to what we're

2641
01:32:17,990 --> 01:32:15,679
dealing with uh one interesting thing is

2642
01:32:19,830 --> 01:32:18,000
that hitchhiker activity was mild during

2643
01:32:22,070 --> 01:32:19,840
the nids years

2644
01:32:24,470 --> 01:32:22,080
but it got inc you know a lot worse

2645
01:32:26,229 --> 01:32:24,480
during osap

2646
01:32:28,550 --> 01:32:26,239
and then the audi the auto the

2647
01:32:29,990 --> 01:32:28,560
autoimmune disease they cannot connect

2648
01:32:31,590 --> 01:32:30,000
with the phenomenon they need more of a

2649
01:32:33,990 --> 01:32:31,600
bigger sample size that's why we need to

2650
01:32:35,830 --> 01:32:34,000
keep doing this whatever that is i mean

2651
01:32:37,110 --> 01:32:35,840
people are getting sick

2652
01:32:39,669 --> 01:32:37,120
they're convinced there's a connection

2653
01:32:41,990 --> 01:32:39,679
but they can't prove it and it's funny i

2654
01:32:43,030 --> 01:32:42,000
saw a comment from bigelow i'm not sure

2655
01:32:44,709 --> 01:32:43,040
if it's in the book or somewhere else

2656
01:32:45,510 --> 01:32:44,719
but he's in the or somewhere else he

2657
01:32:47,750 --> 01:32:45,520
says

2658
01:32:49,350 --> 01:32:47,760
we didn't realize the hatred hitchhiker

2659
01:32:51,110 --> 01:32:49,360
phenomena was gonna

2660
01:32:52,470 --> 01:32:51,120
it's gonna be like permanent it's like

2661
01:32:55,510 --> 01:32:52,480
we thought it would go away and it was

2662
01:32:57,510 --> 01:32:55,520
lasting for years uh well i mean they're

2663
01:32:59,669 --> 01:32:57,520
finding out though that these that these

2664
01:33:00,950 --> 01:32:59,679
uh latent effects if you want to call it

2665
01:33:01,830 --> 01:33:00,960
that

2666
01:33:03,990 --> 01:33:01,840
um

2667
01:33:05,350 --> 01:33:04,000
i wasn't even aware of this

2668
01:33:08,229 --> 01:33:05,360
that like

2669
01:33:10,149 --> 01:33:08,239
kenneth arnold

2670
01:33:11,750 --> 01:33:10,159
i thought he only had the one sighting

2671
01:33:13,270 --> 01:33:11,760
the initial

2672
01:33:15,110 --> 01:33:13,280
one sighting

2673
01:33:17,110 --> 01:33:15,120
but then he had

2674
01:33:18,629 --> 01:33:17,120
follow-on

2675
01:33:21,270 --> 01:33:18,639
encounters

2676
01:33:23,510 --> 01:33:21,280
or his sister his sister had the orb in

2677
01:33:25,430 --> 01:33:23,520
the house i never knew that

2678
01:33:28,390 --> 01:33:25,440
yeah that that's never i've never seen

2679
01:33:30,470 --> 01:33:28,400
that before so it sort of begs the

2680
01:33:32,629 --> 01:33:30,480
question uh for you know sort of a

2681
01:33:34,390 --> 01:33:32,639
secondary investigation to go back and

2682
01:33:36,870 --> 01:33:34,400
look at

2683
01:33:40,629 --> 01:33:36,880
you could pick a subset pick a hundred

2684
01:33:42,629 --> 01:33:40,639
different prominent cases and go back

2685
01:33:44,790 --> 01:33:42,639
and um

2686
01:33:47,350 --> 01:33:44,800
for the ones that are still living

2687
01:33:48,709 --> 01:33:47,360
you know uh as far as the witnesses

2688
01:33:50,310 --> 01:33:48,719
and try to

2689
01:33:51,590 --> 01:33:50,320
maybe that's ongoing maybe somebody's

2690
01:33:54,070 --> 01:33:51,600
doing that

2691
01:33:56,229 --> 01:33:54,080
but it's just another layer that's

2692
01:33:58,229 --> 01:33:56,239
that was eye-opening for me

2693
01:34:00,470 --> 01:33:58,239
me too i had never heard that uh another

2694
01:34:02,070 --> 01:34:00,480
great this this one's

2695
01:34:02,870 --> 01:34:02,080
a little harder to prove a connection

2696
01:34:05,910 --> 01:34:02,880
but

2697
01:34:07,430 --> 01:34:05,920
2011 11 suzanna ash she's sitting next

2698
01:34:09,669 --> 01:34:07,440
to let katsuki

2699
01:34:10,550 --> 01:34:09,679
in a cubic cubicle journey all stop

2700
01:34:12,950 --> 01:34:10,560
years

2701
01:34:14,470 --> 01:34:12,960
i was it was actually after awsep had

2702
01:34:15,910 --> 01:34:14,480
basically ended because of funding

2703
01:34:18,870 --> 01:34:15,920
issues

2704
01:34:21,350 --> 01:34:18,880
and it was the night before likkatsky

2705
01:34:23,110 --> 01:34:21,360
gave this really impassioned impassioned

2706
01:34:24,470 --> 01:34:23,120
briefing at department of homeland

2707
01:34:26,229 --> 01:34:24,480
security which is one of my favorite

2708
01:34:27,750 --> 01:34:26,239
parts of the book they said in the

2709
01:34:29,750 --> 01:34:27,760
beginning he really didn't have time to

2710
01:34:31,830 --> 01:34:29,760
go through all the data

2711
01:34:33,910 --> 01:34:31,840
and then before he gave his briefing to

2712
01:34:36,390 --> 01:34:33,920
dhs he went through everything so he was

2713
01:34:39,430 --> 01:34:36,400
repaired and he threw everything at them

2714
01:34:40,709 --> 01:34:39,440
all the data and the night before this

2715
01:34:42,550 --> 01:34:40,719
woman

2716
01:34:44,830 --> 01:34:42,560
before that happened she's sitting next

2717
01:34:46,550 --> 01:34:44,840
to him and she's like my

2718
01:34:48,950 --> 01:34:46,560
brother

2719
01:34:50,950 --> 01:34:48,960
had all this activity so it wasn't her

2720
01:34:53,030 --> 01:34:50,960
she went home her brother had all this

2721
01:34:55,750 --> 01:34:53,040
activity he never had before you know

2722
01:34:57,990 --> 01:34:55,760
it's like so it's like uap is outside

2723
01:35:00,310 --> 01:34:58,000
uh aerial photos of his house were sent

2724
01:35:03,030 --> 01:35:00,320
to his mobile phone from unknown numbers

2725
01:35:05,109 --> 01:35:03,040
his pet this one's hard to believe but

2726
01:35:07,109 --> 01:35:05,119
his pet dog once disappeared through

2727
01:35:08,550 --> 01:35:07,119
multiple locked doors while eddie slept

2728
01:35:10,629 --> 01:35:08,560
only to be found in the morning

2729
01:35:12,310 --> 01:35:10,639
whimpering outside in the book says

2730
01:35:13,990 --> 01:35:12,320
could the caskey have transmitted

2731
01:35:16,790 --> 01:35:14,000
something to sustain

2732
01:35:19,350 --> 01:35:16,800
to susannah ash who subsequently passed

2733
01:35:21,270 --> 01:35:19,360
it to her brother it's like

2734
01:35:22,470 --> 01:35:21,280
i know that's that's a stretch but

2735
01:35:23,510 --> 01:35:22,480
apparently that had never happened

2736
01:35:25,910 --> 01:35:23,520
before

2737
01:35:30,550 --> 01:35:25,920
uh back to the wolf

2738
01:35:32,950 --> 01:35:30,560
uh the upright wolf sighting so

2739
01:35:35,430 --> 01:35:32,960
his wife saw the wolf his two kids saw

2740
01:35:36,709 --> 01:35:35,440
the wolf and then i think it was a few

2741
01:35:38,470 --> 01:35:36,719
years later

2742
01:35:40,229 --> 01:35:38,480
the kids at school and one of his the

2743
01:35:41,990 --> 01:35:40,239
kids schoolmates say hey i looked up my

2744
01:35:43,990 --> 01:35:42,000
bedroom window last night and i saw a

2745
01:35:46,310 --> 01:35:44,000
wolf-like creature standing at my

2746
01:35:48,070 --> 01:35:46,320
bedroom look standing outside my bedroom

2747
01:35:50,950 --> 01:35:48,080
looking in at me

2748
01:35:54,830 --> 01:35:50,960
uh another friend of his saw blue lights

2749
01:35:57,109 --> 01:35:54,840
flying around his back backyard so it's

2750
01:35:58,470 --> 01:35:57,119
like is it spreading throughout the

2751
01:35:59,910 --> 01:35:58,480
neighborhood that was the whole argument

2752
01:36:01,830 --> 01:35:59,920
like you're taking this home is that a

2753
01:36:04,310 --> 01:36:01,840
good thing to do to visit these sites uh

2754
01:36:05,270 --> 01:36:04,320
another thing is 1973 uri geller is

2755
01:36:07,030 --> 01:36:05,280
visiting

2756
01:36:08,310 --> 01:36:07,040
lawrence livermore there's a laboratory

2757
01:36:11,669 --> 01:36:08,320
right right next door and they want to

2758
01:36:14,709 --> 01:36:11,679
test his pk abilities can he affect um

2759
01:36:17,189 --> 01:36:14,719
electronics uh and the the scientists at

2760
01:36:19,590 --> 01:36:17,199
mel uh at lawrence livermore who have

2761
01:36:20,709 --> 01:36:19,600
top top clearances during dealing with

2762
01:36:24,229 --> 01:36:20,719
nuclear

2763
01:36:26,070 --> 01:36:24,239
uh energy and weapons uh they start

2764
01:36:27,990 --> 01:36:26,080
having poltergeist activity in their in

2765
01:36:31,430 --> 01:36:28,000
their homes one they're seeing a raven

2766
01:36:33,109 --> 01:36:31,440
on the bed small flying saucers orbs are

2767
01:36:35,669 --> 01:36:33,119
showing up shadowy figures and there's

2768
01:36:37,350 --> 01:36:35,679
one which is really well known they see

2769
01:36:39,830 --> 01:36:37,360
this arm that's spinning around in

2770
01:36:42,149 --> 01:36:39,840
midair uh i think it had a hook on it

2771
01:36:43,830 --> 01:36:42,159
i'm not sure and then the next day

2772
01:36:45,750 --> 01:36:43,840
they're at this hotel room and i think

2773
01:36:47,750 --> 01:36:45,760
hal put off answers the door and this

2774
01:36:49,910 --> 01:36:47,760
guy shows up and it matches the same

2775
01:36:51,910 --> 01:36:49,920
color of the suit as a spinning arm

2776
01:36:53,910 --> 01:36:51,920
and the person in the suit had one arm

2777
01:36:55,750 --> 01:36:53,920
missing so it's like what the hell kit

2778
01:36:57,590 --> 01:36:55,760
green was like this is 73. kick green

2779
01:36:59,510 --> 01:36:57,600
was involved hal put off they're still

2780
01:37:01,830 --> 01:36:59,520
involved uh kick green was like well

2781
01:37:03,270 --> 01:37:01,840
it's i think it's maybe black technology

2782
01:37:05,669 --> 01:37:03,280
you know they had just come on with

2783
01:37:07,270 --> 01:37:05,679
holograms at the time technology

2784
01:37:08,629 --> 01:37:07,280
so kick green was considering black

2785
01:37:10,229 --> 01:37:08,639
technology even back then he's

2786
01:37:13,350 --> 01:37:10,239
considering it now

2787
01:37:15,270 --> 01:37:13,360
i i don't i mean i don't know but to me

2788
01:37:16,310 --> 01:37:15,280
does that sound like black technology to

2789
01:37:19,109 --> 01:37:16,320
you i mean

2790
01:37:20,390 --> 01:37:19,119
this is 73.

2791
01:37:22,470 --> 01:37:20,400
yeah what's your whole opinion on the

2792
01:37:25,590 --> 01:37:22,480
black technology theory

2793
01:37:29,990 --> 01:37:25,600
i i think it's uh

2794
01:37:32,390 --> 01:37:30,000
it's pretty loose and i think that uh

2795
01:37:36,550 --> 01:37:32,400
there's an enormous amount of liability

2796
01:37:38,390 --> 01:37:36,560
in exposing civilians to uh to

2797
01:37:40,709 --> 01:37:38,400
government projects

2798
01:37:42,149 --> 01:37:40,719
from a testing standpoint

2799
01:37:44,470 --> 01:37:42,159
um

2800
01:37:46,870 --> 01:37:44,480
why they would take the risk

2801
01:37:47,590 --> 01:37:46,880
we already know i know from experience

2802
01:37:50,310 --> 01:37:47,600
and

2803
01:37:52,470 --> 01:37:50,320
operational readiness testing that i was

2804
01:37:55,590 --> 01:37:52,480
involved in

2805
01:37:56,790 --> 01:37:55,600
you you go to great lengths

2806
01:37:57,910 --> 01:37:56,800
to

2807
01:37:58,950 --> 01:37:57,920
secure

2808
01:38:02,310 --> 01:37:58,960
areas

2809
01:38:04,709 --> 01:38:02,320
to secure the people human safety human

2810
01:38:07,910 --> 01:38:04,719
safety is is

2811
01:38:11,430 --> 01:38:07,920
of paramount importance

2812
01:38:14,470 --> 01:38:11,440
why would uh why would these systems

2813
01:38:17,109 --> 01:38:14,480
be unleashed on unwitting

2814
01:38:19,430 --> 01:38:17,119
civilians why would they be operated if

2815
01:38:20,790 --> 01:38:19,440
they're if they're dangerous to human

2816
01:38:22,870 --> 01:38:20,800
health

2817
01:38:25,270 --> 01:38:22,880
why would they be operated

2818
01:38:27,030 --> 01:38:25,280
uh around around civilians and outside

2819
01:38:28,790 --> 01:38:27,040
of a highly

2820
01:38:31,030 --> 01:38:28,800
contained

2821
01:38:32,950 --> 01:38:31,040
highly secure area

2822
01:38:34,550 --> 01:38:32,960
you know there's just there it seems to

2823
01:38:38,310 --> 01:38:34,560
me

2824
01:38:39,910 --> 01:38:38,320
in the normal sense of

2825
01:38:40,550 --> 01:38:39,920
uh reality

2826
01:38:44,709 --> 01:38:40,560
and

2827
01:38:47,270 --> 01:38:44,719
you know the norms that are in place for

2828
01:38:48,790 --> 01:38:47,280
just overall human safety in anything

2829
01:38:50,790 --> 01:38:48,800
that that's out there whether it's

2830
01:38:53,990 --> 01:38:50,800
vehicle safety

2831
01:38:56,790 --> 01:38:54,000
or just you being on the street

2832
01:38:59,109 --> 01:38:56,800
you being out hunting with your friends

2833
01:39:00,629 --> 01:38:59,119
whatever the activity is

2834
01:39:02,229 --> 01:39:00,639
all the way to

2835
01:39:04,709 --> 01:39:02,239
military

2836
01:39:05,830 --> 01:39:04,719
testing

2837
01:39:10,790 --> 01:39:05,840
the

2838
01:39:13,109 --> 01:39:10,800
to set up a test plan

2839
01:39:14,790 --> 01:39:13,119
and to secure an area

2840
01:39:16,229 --> 01:39:14,800
and to ensure that the personnel

2841
01:39:18,390 --> 01:39:16,239
involved

2842
01:39:22,310 --> 01:39:18,400
are going to be safe

2843
01:39:23,510 --> 01:39:22,320
it is is the great expense of a lot of

2844
01:39:25,590 --> 01:39:23,520
like

2845
01:39:27,430 --> 01:39:25,600
you know even the space shuttle the

2846
01:39:28,870 --> 01:39:27,440
reason why it was one of the reasons why

2847
01:39:32,470 --> 01:39:28,880
it was so expensive is because you had

2848
01:39:34,950 --> 01:39:32,480
humans on board if you have an unmanned

2849
01:39:37,590 --> 01:39:34,960
craft of any kind in any kind of

2850
01:39:38,709 --> 01:39:37,600
unmanned vehicle that you're testing

2851
01:39:41,910 --> 01:39:38,719
then the

2852
01:39:44,229 --> 01:39:41,920
the safety factors human safety factors

2853
01:39:45,990 --> 01:39:44,239
um if they're not there if they're not a

2854
01:39:46,790 --> 01:39:46,000
concern

2855
01:39:49,590 --> 01:39:46,800
then

2856
01:39:53,910 --> 01:39:51,189
that's a totally different realm from

2857
01:39:56,790 --> 01:39:53,920
operating in in with something with some

2858
01:39:59,030 --> 01:39:56,800
technology around people versus

2859
01:40:01,590 --> 01:39:59,040
operating a piece of technology

2860
01:40:04,070 --> 01:40:01,600
out in out in a remote area and i just

2861
01:40:06,390 --> 01:40:04,080
don't see any need

2862
01:40:07,750 --> 01:40:06,400
for testing

2863
01:40:14,310 --> 01:40:07,760
technology

2864
01:40:15,510 --> 01:40:14,320
that in the 70s really

2865
01:40:18,790 --> 01:40:15,520
orbs

2866
01:40:21,109 --> 01:40:18,800
uh or or any kind of thing that's uh

2867
01:40:22,790 --> 01:40:21,119
described in this book that is

2868
01:40:25,109 --> 01:40:22,800
really

2869
01:40:27,669 --> 01:40:25,119
it's it was it's it's not even beyond

2870
01:40:29,590 --> 01:40:27,679
next generation it's um it's it's

2871
01:40:31,750 --> 01:40:29,600
borderline magic stuff that's going on

2872
01:40:34,629 --> 01:40:31,760
right and uh yeah and when when kit

2873
01:40:36,790 --> 01:40:34,639
green when kit green explained to me his

2874
01:40:38,070 --> 01:40:36,800
theory and it's it wasn't off the record

2875
01:40:39,750 --> 01:40:38,080
it's part of my interview i haven't

2876
01:40:42,229 --> 01:40:39,760
posted um

2877
01:40:43,990 --> 01:40:42,239
he got angry because he thinks that this

2878
01:40:46,790 --> 01:40:44,000
may be going on angry at the humans

2879
01:40:48,709 --> 01:40:46,800
involved if i do get him on

2880
01:40:50,470 --> 01:40:48,719
for an interview if i can convince him i

2881
01:40:52,229 --> 01:40:50,480
will have you i'll try to have you on

2882
01:40:54,310 --> 01:40:52,239
too guys yeah like you said he's an

2883
01:40:56,070 --> 01:40:54,320
interesting guy um

2884
01:40:57,590 --> 01:40:56,080
the whole two i want to say one thing

2885
01:41:01,750 --> 01:40:57,600
because i was talking on twitter earlier

2886
01:41:04,790 --> 01:41:01,760
where lakotsky said that between 2008

2887
01:41:07,430 --> 01:41:04,800
and 2012 basically asap they were the

2888
01:41:09,750 --> 01:41:07,440
only ufo game in town meanwhile

2889
01:41:14,629 --> 01:41:09,760
lou elizondo has said

2890
01:41:16,709 --> 01:41:14,639
he worked with atip from 2009 to 2017

2891
01:41:17,590 --> 01:41:16,719
but i learned later on that there were

2892
01:41:19,350 --> 01:41:17,600
people

2893
01:41:21,830 --> 01:41:19,360
around 2009

2894
01:41:24,149 --> 01:41:21,840
in the in the dod who were working

2895
01:41:26,709 --> 01:41:24,159
it was very loose but they were working

2896
01:41:27,990 --> 01:41:26,719
on on ufos so i think lakatsuki is wrong

2897
01:41:29,590 --> 01:41:28,000
about that

2898
01:41:31,590 --> 01:41:29,600
um because

2899
01:41:33,270 --> 01:41:31,600
lou's been very quiet uh the only thing

2900
01:41:35,430 --> 01:41:33,280
i would love for him to talk about is he

2901
01:41:37,109 --> 01:41:35,440
has spoken about the 22 million and kind

2902
01:41:40,149 --> 01:41:37,119
of made it sound like atip got that

2903
01:41:42,229 --> 01:41:40,159
money and they didn't other than that

2904
01:41:44,550 --> 01:41:42,239
i don't you know people are like here we

2905
01:41:46,629 --> 01:41:44,560
go we could slam lou now but no lou has

2906
01:41:48,149 --> 01:41:46,639
done amazing work the reason why i think

2907
01:41:49,910 --> 01:41:48,159
him melanin and the people behind the

2908
01:41:51,669 --> 01:41:49,920
scenes the reason we're talking about a

2909
01:41:53,510 --> 01:41:51,679
ufo office is

2910
01:41:56,310 --> 01:41:53,520
a big part he's a big part of that and i

2911
01:41:58,070 --> 01:41:56,320
still i still respect him immensely

2912
01:41:59,430 --> 01:41:58,080
and people get mad at me today because i

2913
01:42:01,830 --> 01:41:59,440
was like nah

2914
01:42:03,830 --> 01:42:01,840
you know what katsuki's saying this but

2915
01:42:05,270 --> 01:42:03,840
i would love for lakatsuki and lou to

2916
01:42:06,470 --> 01:42:05,280
talk but

2917
01:42:08,470 --> 01:42:06,480
i don't know if there's any bad blood

2918
01:42:11,590 --> 01:42:08,480
between them i don't know i don't know

2919
01:42:12,310 --> 01:42:11,600
how well they got along afterwards um

2920
01:42:14,709 --> 01:42:12,320
but

2921
01:42:16,790 --> 01:42:14,719
the whole 2009

2922
01:42:18,950 --> 01:42:16,800
for people who don't know atip was used

2923
01:42:21,109 --> 01:42:18,960
in the letter when they wanted to make

2924
01:42:23,350 --> 01:42:21,119
ossep a special access program they came

2925
01:42:24,950 --> 01:42:23,360
up with a nickname because they didn't

2926
01:42:27,350 --> 01:42:24,960
want to expose the real name so they

2927
01:42:29,430 --> 01:42:27,360
used atip supposedly harry reid came up

2928
01:42:30,390 --> 01:42:29,440
with come up came up with it out of thin

2929
01:42:31,590 --> 01:42:30,400
air

2930
01:42:34,070 --> 01:42:31,600
and

2931
01:42:35,990 --> 01:42:34,080
once that letter got out

2932
01:42:38,070 --> 01:42:36,000
there were people

2933
01:42:39,910 --> 01:42:38,080
they had a meeting uh and lynn wanted

2934
01:42:41,669 --> 01:42:39,920
willing lin who was the deputy defense

2935
01:42:43,990 --> 01:42:41,679
secretary of defense who the letter was

2936
01:42:45,830 --> 01:42:44,000
written to from reed said

2937
01:42:48,310 --> 01:42:45,840
is this about those damned flying

2938
01:42:49,750 --> 01:42:48,320
saucers uh and then it was unwanted

2939
01:42:52,070 --> 01:42:49,760
publicity and it went out to various

2940
01:42:54,950 --> 01:42:52,080
people who were involved in this meeting

2941
01:42:57,030 --> 01:42:54,960
jim clapper james clapper was part of it

2942
01:42:59,350 --> 01:42:57,040
i forget his exact title if he was under

2943
01:43:01,030 --> 01:42:59,360
secretary of defense i'm not sure a

2944
01:43:02,950 --> 01:43:01,040
pretty big name

2945
01:43:04,310 --> 01:43:02,960
uh but

2946
01:43:05,910 --> 01:43:04,320
in less than an hour that meeting was

2947
01:43:08,470 --> 01:43:05,920
broken up and i never knew that that

2948
01:43:10,310 --> 01:43:08,480
decision to go for sap

2949
01:43:11,270 --> 01:43:10,320
was postponed

2950
01:43:12,950 --> 01:43:11,280
um

2951
01:43:14,950 --> 01:43:12,960
it late and it says

2952
01:43:16,550 --> 01:43:14,960
later on when they were working with air

2953
01:43:19,910 --> 01:43:16,560
force office of

2954
01:43:21,590 --> 01:43:19,920
special investigations af osi

2955
01:43:23,910 --> 01:43:21,600
you know they wanted to get some access

2956
01:43:25,669 --> 01:43:23,920
to the northern tier cases and anything

2957
01:43:27,350 --> 01:43:25,679
that was

2958
01:43:29,750 --> 01:43:27,360
you know the air force had been working

2959
01:43:31,189 --> 01:43:29,760
on ufo related and non-ufo related

2960
01:43:32,470 --> 01:43:31,199
because they wanted to make sure hey if

2961
01:43:34,550 --> 01:43:32,480
this is a black project you guys are

2962
01:43:35,750 --> 01:43:34,560
working on let us know so we don't waste

2963
01:43:37,350 --> 01:43:35,760
our time

2964
01:43:38,709 --> 01:43:37,360
and but then they said

2965
01:43:40,070 --> 01:43:38,719
but if you want to get access to the

2966
01:43:43,030 --> 01:43:40,080
good stuff you guys need to become an

2967
01:43:45,910 --> 01:43:43,040
sap so the 2009 effort was put off they

2968
01:43:49,750 --> 01:43:45,920
tried again i think in 2011 and also

2969
01:43:56,709 --> 01:43:51,109
i don't know if you have any thoughts on

2970
01:43:58,149 --> 01:43:56,719
that well um yeah i i do i think um

2971
01:44:00,550 --> 01:43:58,159
something like this in the book

2972
01:44:03,189 --> 01:44:00,560
describes it it's it's it's more than a

2973
01:44:06,310 --> 01:44:03,199
political hot potato

2974
01:44:10,550 --> 01:44:06,320
you're you're talking about

2975
01:44:12,629 --> 01:44:10,560
a program of ex of extreme sensitivity

2976
01:44:15,030 --> 01:44:12,639
in a number of ways because

2977
01:44:18,310 --> 01:44:15,040
finding sponsorship finding a landing

2978
01:44:20,149 --> 01:44:18,320
place for it within an agency

2979
01:44:22,790 --> 01:44:20,159
is going to require buy-in from that

2980
01:44:24,390 --> 01:44:22,800
agency so these

2981
01:44:27,430 --> 01:44:24,400
agencies are very

2982
01:44:29,350 --> 01:44:27,440
territorial about their their funding

2983
01:44:31,830 --> 01:44:29,360
and their their

2984
01:44:33,109 --> 01:44:31,840
their organizational authorities and

2985
01:44:36,070 --> 01:44:33,119
their reach

2986
01:44:38,229 --> 01:44:36,080
and their jurisdictions if you will

2987
01:44:39,830 --> 01:44:38,239
they have set

2988
01:44:41,669 --> 01:44:39,840
mission charters

2989
01:44:43,189 --> 01:44:41,679
literally you can go read them on their

2990
01:44:45,510 --> 01:44:43,199
websites

2991
01:44:49,590 --> 01:44:45,520
and find out what their charter is with

2992
01:44:52,950 --> 01:44:49,600
what they what it is they do and

2993
01:44:54,629 --> 01:44:52,960
to take on a any program

2994
01:44:56,310 --> 01:44:54,639
is

2995
01:44:59,030 --> 01:44:56,320
basically acknowledging that you're

2996
01:45:00,709 --> 01:44:59,040
going to also be responsible for

2997
01:45:02,950 --> 01:45:00,719
uh the programmatics what i call

2998
01:45:04,950 --> 01:45:02,960
programmatics of the of the program

2999
01:45:07,430 --> 01:45:04,960
which includes the funding

3000
01:45:08,870 --> 01:45:07,440
and the administration of the program so

3001
01:45:10,470 --> 01:45:08,880
it's not just

3002
01:45:13,189 --> 01:45:10,480
do you have an empty office down the

3003
01:45:15,910 --> 01:45:13,199
hallway that we can use kind of question

3004
01:45:17,669 --> 01:45:15,920
right it's a pretty complex question

3005
01:45:20,709 --> 01:45:17,679
because someone someone's going to be

3006
01:45:22,070 --> 01:45:20,719
asking you to take ownership of this

3007
01:45:24,390 --> 01:45:22,080
and you're going to be

3008
01:45:25,270 --> 01:45:24,400
responsible for it and accountable for

3009
01:45:30,470 --> 01:45:25,280
it

3010
01:45:32,550 --> 01:45:30,480
or any whatever the subject getting

3011
01:45:34,470 --> 01:45:32,560
accountability getting getting an agency

3012
01:45:35,189 --> 01:45:34,480
to accept a mission

3013
01:45:36,790 --> 01:45:35,199
or

3014
01:45:38,149 --> 01:45:36,800
um

3015
01:45:39,669 --> 01:45:38,159
an activity

3016
01:45:40,790 --> 01:45:39,679
like this

3017
01:45:42,629 --> 01:45:40,800
is um

3018
01:45:45,590 --> 01:45:42,639
is a pretty complex endeavor and and

3019
01:45:48,390 --> 01:45:45,600
christopher mellon talks about this

3020
01:45:50,790 --> 01:45:48,400
in in properly organizing

3021
01:45:53,510 --> 01:45:50,800
uh whatever the task force follow on is

3022
01:45:55,510 --> 01:45:53,520
going to be we we see shades of that of

3023
01:45:57,510 --> 01:45:55,520
what we're talking about here and how

3024
01:45:59,189 --> 01:45:57,520
mellon's writing about how this ought to

3025
01:46:01,510 --> 01:45:59,199
be done in the future

3026
01:46:03,669 --> 01:46:01,520
when they when they do

3027
01:46:05,590 --> 01:46:03,679
hopefully get the ability to collate all

3028
01:46:06,550 --> 01:46:05,600
of this data coming in from across these

3029
01:46:08,470 --> 01:46:06,560
different

3030
01:46:09,510 --> 01:46:08,480
stove pipes as we've heard them referred

3031
01:46:12,550 --> 01:46:09,520
to

3032
01:46:14,870 --> 01:46:12,560
that's not a simple undertaking

3033
01:46:17,109 --> 01:46:14,880
and it will not be successful if it does

3034
01:46:18,550 --> 01:46:17,119
not have the appropriate authorities and

3035
01:46:19,750 --> 01:46:18,560
leadership

3036
01:46:21,189 --> 01:46:19,760
um

3037
01:46:23,590 --> 01:46:21,199
at the head of it

3038
01:46:24,870 --> 01:46:23,600
to to manage it so

3039
01:46:26,950 --> 01:46:24,880
and i did speak with somebody a couple

3040
01:46:28,870 --> 01:46:26,960
of years ago who said they helped try to

3041
01:46:31,030 --> 01:46:28,880
find a home and that just

3042
01:46:31,910 --> 01:46:31,040
they tried really really hard and they

3043
01:46:32,950 --> 01:46:31,920
failed

3044
01:46:35,109 --> 01:46:32,960
um

3045
01:46:35,990 --> 01:46:35,119
well but you're only so are they talking

3046
01:46:38,709 --> 01:46:36,000
about

3047
01:46:41,590 --> 01:46:38,719
programmatics the funding and they've

3048
01:46:43,189 --> 01:46:41,600
been in the administration behind it

3049
01:46:45,350 --> 01:46:43,199
who's going to run it how are you going

3050
01:46:47,990 --> 01:46:45,360
to pay for it how's it going to be

3051
01:46:49,830 --> 01:46:48,000
structured who who is it who is it

3052
01:46:54,629 --> 01:46:49,840
reporting to

3053
01:46:56,310 --> 01:46:54,639
who's data sharing with it who's it

3054
01:46:59,350 --> 01:46:56,320
reporting out to

3055
01:47:01,270 --> 01:46:59,360
and who's who has oversight right

3056
01:47:02,629 --> 01:47:01,280
um they were close with the part but the

3057
01:47:04,550 --> 01:47:02,639
department of homeland security seemed

3058
01:47:06,510 --> 01:47:04,560
like it was very close

3059
01:47:09,510 --> 01:47:06,520
i don't know what year that was

3060
01:47:11,510 --> 01:47:09,520
2011 but they had the funding and they

3061
01:47:13,270 --> 01:47:11,520
decided not to take the funding and i

3062
01:47:15,109 --> 01:47:13,280
don't know how all that works so we're

3063
01:47:17,510 --> 01:47:15,119
making some assumptions here that that

3064
01:47:19,910 --> 01:47:17,520
this that the book is written

3065
01:47:21,109 --> 01:47:19,920
um

3066
01:47:23,510 --> 01:47:21,119
knowing

3067
01:47:25,990 --> 01:47:23,520
by people that and we have to assume

3068
01:47:27,510 --> 01:47:26,000
right that they know

3069
01:47:29,350 --> 01:47:27,520
all of the facts

3070
01:47:31,430 --> 01:47:29,360
that they that they that they know and

3071
01:47:32,709 --> 01:47:31,440
fully understand

3072
01:47:36,550 --> 01:47:32,719
the uh

3073
01:47:38,790 --> 01:47:36,560
how their briefings were really taken

3074
01:47:40,950 --> 01:47:38,800
but they can't know

3075
01:47:43,830 --> 01:47:40,960
those higher level discussions

3076
01:47:45,590 --> 01:47:43,840
that obviously ultimately led to

3077
01:47:48,229 --> 01:47:45,600
what i would refer to it as dying on the

3078
01:47:50,229 --> 01:47:48,239
vine right at least temporarily right so

3079
01:47:52,229 --> 01:47:50,239
they they can't be they weren't privy to

3080
01:47:54,229 --> 01:47:52,239
those discussions and we're not just

3081
01:47:55,350 --> 01:47:54,239
talking about i didn't finish my thought

3082
01:47:56,629 --> 01:47:55,360
a minute ago

3083
01:47:58,950 --> 01:47:56,639
we're not just talking about the

3084
01:48:00,390 --> 01:47:58,960
programmatics of it

3085
01:48:03,750 --> 01:48:00,400
with this topic

3086
01:48:05,510 --> 01:48:03,760
you're getting into people's

3087
01:48:07,270 --> 01:48:05,520
beliefs

3088
01:48:09,910 --> 01:48:07,280
that doesn't occur when you're talking

3089
01:48:11,189 --> 01:48:09,920
about who's going to take on a a fighter

3090
01:48:18,229 --> 01:48:11,199
program

3091
01:48:19,910 --> 01:48:18,239
you're not getting into people's

3092
01:48:21,510 --> 01:48:19,920
fundamental

3093
01:48:23,830 --> 01:48:21,520
beliefs

3094
01:48:26,470 --> 01:48:23,840
when you're looking for ownership of a

3095
01:48:28,070 --> 01:48:26,480
new mission capability that is a

3096
01:48:29,030 --> 01:48:28,080
technical

3097
01:48:33,669 --> 01:48:29,040
asset

3098
01:48:35,030 --> 01:48:33,679
say a satellite an aircraft a ship

3099
01:48:37,430 --> 01:48:35,040
this one

3100
01:48:40,470 --> 01:48:37,440
comes with all kinds of baggage

3101
01:48:43,189 --> 01:48:40,480
it's got its historical taboo

3102
01:48:45,109 --> 01:48:43,199
all the legacy stuff that's out there

3103
01:48:47,510 --> 01:48:45,119
civilian involvement

3104
01:48:49,270 --> 01:48:47,520
multiple organizations over decades

3105
01:48:51,990 --> 01:48:49,280
studying this topic

3106
01:48:54,310 --> 01:48:52,000
that supposedly have more data combined

3107
01:48:55,669 --> 01:48:54,320
than what the government does if you

3108
01:48:57,189 --> 01:48:55,679
believe that the government hasn't

3109
01:48:59,270 --> 01:48:57,199
really been involved in this stuff at

3110
01:49:01,669 --> 01:48:59,280
all

3111
01:49:02,950 --> 01:49:01,679
so it's pretty complicated trying to i

3112
01:49:05,030 --> 01:49:02,960
would imagine

3113
01:49:08,629 --> 01:49:05,040
as as described in the book

3114
01:49:12,070 --> 01:49:08,639
trying to get acceptance of this program

3115
01:49:13,270 --> 01:49:12,080
underneath the roof of dhs or anyplace

3116
01:49:15,109 --> 01:49:13,280
else

3117
01:49:17,589 --> 01:49:15,119
and then you've got the

3118
01:49:20,950 --> 01:49:17,599
political appointees that oversee those

3119
01:49:22,629 --> 01:49:20,960
those agencies and organizations and all

3120
01:49:24,229 --> 01:49:22,639
the bureaucracies

3121
01:49:26,149 --> 01:49:24,239
that are

3122
01:49:28,149 --> 01:49:26,159
going on those places

3123
01:49:31,430 --> 01:49:28,159
that is all part of whether or not

3124
01:49:32,790 --> 01:49:31,440
something gets properly uh accepted

3125
01:49:34,629 --> 01:49:32,800
adopted

3126
01:49:37,510 --> 01:49:34,639
uh sponsored

3127
01:49:39,270 --> 01:49:37,520
and managed under

3128
01:49:40,470 --> 01:49:39,280
pick your agency right so there's a lot

3129
01:49:45,750 --> 01:49:40,480
going on

3130
01:49:49,430 --> 01:49:47,350
it's not something in your standard

3131
01:49:50,950 --> 01:49:49,440
defense appropriations or intelligence

3132
01:49:52,310 --> 01:49:50,960
appropriations

3133
01:49:53,830 --> 01:49:52,320
ledger

3134
01:49:55,830 --> 01:49:53,840
yeah i think a big part of that

3135
01:49:57,589 --> 01:49:55,840
hopefully will change if

3136
01:49:59,270 --> 01:49:57,599
i don't see stigma going away anytime

3137
01:50:00,390 --> 01:49:59,280
soon i know that's part of it it's only

3138
01:50:02,790 --> 01:50:00,400
part of it

3139
01:50:04,149 --> 01:50:02,800
we'll see what congress comes up with uh

3140
01:50:05,189 --> 01:50:04,159
when they finally come up on their

3141
01:50:07,030 --> 01:50:05,199
language

3142
01:50:08,550 --> 01:50:07,040
between the senate and the house one

3143
01:50:12,950 --> 01:50:08,560
case i wanted to talk about related to

3144
01:50:14,790 --> 01:50:12,960
dhs is may 2009 derek jones

3145
01:50:17,109 --> 01:50:14,800
so he has a triangle in his backyard

3146
01:50:18,950 --> 01:50:17,119
he's out there camping in a tent his two

3147
01:50:20,629 --> 01:50:18,960
kids neighbor and i think his kid he's

3148
01:50:22,709 --> 01:50:20,639
49 years old

3149
01:50:24,390 --> 01:50:22,719
sees a large triangle

3150
01:50:25,990 --> 01:50:24,400
with two egg-shaped objects i think

3151
01:50:27,350 --> 01:50:26,000
there were other two other small objects

3152
01:50:29,910 --> 01:50:27,360
those flew down into the woods and then

3153
01:50:32,149 --> 01:50:29,920
back up to the triangle was 60 to 100

3154
01:50:35,189 --> 01:50:32,159
feet above him and 300 feet long so

3155
01:50:37,189 --> 01:50:35,199
basically a football field size

3156
01:50:39,750 --> 01:50:37,199
so he wants to get a better look at it

3157
01:50:41,830 --> 01:50:39,760
he gets this really strong flashlight

3158
01:50:43,910 --> 01:50:41,840
he's about to blast it with a flashlight

3159
01:50:46,870 --> 01:50:43,920
and out of the out of the triangle comes

3160
01:50:49,030 --> 01:50:46,880
a white bluish light comes down

3161
01:50:51,030 --> 01:50:49,040
he gets burned from it

3162
01:50:53,669 --> 01:50:51,040
helicopters show up

3163
01:50:55,350 --> 01:50:53,679
the next day men and black like guys

3164
01:50:57,030 --> 01:50:55,360
come up

3165
01:50:59,189 --> 01:50:57,040
asap tracked them to the department of

3166
01:51:01,189 --> 01:50:59,199
homeland security it was two guys one of

3167
01:51:02,470 --> 01:51:01,199
them had a gun uh they wanted to

3168
01:51:04,470 --> 01:51:02,480
interrogate him what happened there were

3169
01:51:05,510 --> 01:51:04,480
helicopters in the area searching the

3170
01:51:07,510 --> 01:51:05,520
next day

3171
01:51:09,830 --> 01:51:07,520
he wound up getting lumps all over his

3172
01:51:12,750 --> 01:51:09,840
body it was diagnosed he was diagnosed

3173
01:51:15,669 --> 01:51:12,760
with non-malignant lymphoma and again

3174
01:51:17,830 --> 01:51:15,679
non-ionizing radiation so

3175
01:51:20,390 --> 01:51:17,840
he talks kind of like there are men in

3176
01:51:22,149 --> 01:51:20,400
black like guys show up and louis londo

3177
01:51:24,229 --> 01:51:22,159
when he was interviewed by richard dolan

3178
01:51:27,109 --> 01:51:24,239
said that a close colleague of him

3179
01:51:28,229 --> 01:51:27,119
had encountered these men and black like

3180
01:51:29,589 --> 01:51:28,239
guys

3181
01:51:31,510 --> 01:51:29,599
who would come in

3182
01:51:32,550 --> 01:51:31,520
grab the data before any other folks

3183
01:51:34,790 --> 01:51:32,560
could get there and they would

3184
01:51:36,629 --> 01:51:34,800
intimidate people this sounds exactly

3185
01:51:38,470 --> 01:51:36,639
like he's talking about hopefully we'll

3186
01:51:39,830 --> 01:51:38,480
somebody will ask him about i don't know

3187
01:51:41,270 --> 01:51:39,840
if there's more than one case if there

3188
01:51:43,109 --> 01:51:41,280
are a lot of cases

3189
01:51:50,790 --> 01:51:43,119
um

3190
01:51:52,229 --> 01:51:50,800
reminiscent of

3191
01:51:54,070 --> 01:51:52,239
the whole history of this phenomenon

3192
01:51:56,709 --> 01:51:54,080
right it had a little bit of everything

3193
01:51:58,550 --> 01:51:56,719
it did and and also it's like

3194
01:51:59,589 --> 01:51:58,560
it makes you think

3195
01:52:01,990 --> 01:51:59,599
you know you want to make the black

3196
01:52:04,790 --> 01:52:02,000
tactic the black tech argument it's like

3197
01:52:07,270 --> 01:52:04,800
so whoever was inside that triangle saw

3198
01:52:08,790 --> 01:52:07,280
him about to use a flashlight or if it

3199
01:52:10,470 --> 01:52:08,800
was not if it was non-human there was

3200
01:52:11,830 --> 01:52:10,480
some sort of telepathy going on they

3201
01:52:14,149 --> 01:52:11,840
just blasted him

3202
01:52:16,149 --> 01:52:14,159
i don't know i don't know what that was

3203
01:52:17,669 --> 01:52:16,159
but he got sick i mean non-malignant

3204
01:52:18,470 --> 01:52:17,679
lymphoma was pretty serious he had so

3205
01:52:25,189 --> 01:52:18,480
many

3206
01:52:26,470 --> 01:52:25,199
i mean if if you take the uh

3207
01:52:28,149 --> 01:52:26,480
without naming

3208
01:52:29,430 --> 01:52:28,159
specific cases

3209
01:52:30,629 --> 01:52:29,440
there have been

3210
01:52:32,310 --> 01:52:30,639
instances

3211
01:52:34,870 --> 01:52:32,320
claimed in reports

3212
01:52:37,750 --> 01:52:34,880
for decades where people have

3213
01:52:39,350 --> 01:52:37,760
shined car lights

3214
01:52:43,189 --> 01:52:39,360
flashlights

3215
01:52:46,070 --> 01:52:43,199
spot beams aircraft pilots have blinked

3216
01:52:48,550 --> 01:52:46,080
on and off their landing lights in

3217
01:52:50,790 --> 01:52:48,560
flight at an unknown object that they

3218
01:52:52,790 --> 01:52:50,800
see out in the in front of them in their

3219
01:52:55,189 --> 01:52:52,800
flight path

3220
01:52:56,390 --> 01:52:55,199
people have shot at them

3221
01:52:59,189 --> 01:52:56,400
uh

3222
01:53:01,910 --> 01:52:59,199
valet writes about people having shot at

3223
01:53:02,950 --> 01:53:01,920
ufos i believe it's valet they hear the

3224
01:53:04,709 --> 01:53:02,960
pinging

3225
01:53:06,070 --> 01:53:04,719
of the the ricochet of the bullets off

3226
01:53:08,149 --> 01:53:06,080
these things

3227
01:53:09,910 --> 01:53:08,159
you know christopher mellon in the uh

3228
01:53:11,189 --> 01:53:09,920
unidentified series

3229
01:53:12,390 --> 01:53:11,199
when he was talking about the black

3230
01:53:13,830 --> 01:53:12,400
triangles

3231
01:53:16,870 --> 01:53:13,840
his sense

3232
01:53:18,629 --> 01:53:16,880
uh his strongest sense was that perhaps

3233
01:53:21,030 --> 01:53:18,639
they were some sort of data collection

3234
01:53:22,790 --> 01:53:21,040
or mapping mission

3235
01:53:24,950 --> 01:53:22,800
the way this one

3236
01:53:27,830 --> 01:53:24,960
gentleman described this beam coming

3237
01:53:30,629 --> 01:53:27,840
down and uh to the ground and this this

3238
01:53:31,750 --> 01:53:30,639
vehicle flying in a in sort of a grid

3239
01:53:32,709 --> 01:53:31,760
pattern

3240
01:53:36,149 --> 01:53:32,719
right

3241
01:53:37,510 --> 01:53:36,159
uh so see even if it's if you just

3242
01:53:38,870 --> 01:53:37,520
consider

3243
01:53:41,750 --> 01:53:38,880
um

3244
01:53:44,149 --> 01:53:41,760
this is speculation obviously that these

3245
01:53:46,229 --> 01:53:44,159
are all autonomous vehicles

3246
01:53:48,550 --> 01:53:46,239
and you're shining

3247
01:53:50,390 --> 01:53:48,560
a flashlight at this thing

3248
01:53:51,510 --> 01:53:50,400
and it's got a sensor on it that detects

3249
01:53:54,149 --> 01:53:51,520
that

3250
01:53:56,629 --> 01:53:54,159
then maybe it's got some other sensor

3251
01:53:58,390 --> 01:53:56,639
itself that is going to

3252
01:54:00,950 --> 01:53:58,400
uh

3253
01:54:03,109 --> 01:54:00,960
localize on that flashlight or whatever

3254
01:54:04,709 --> 01:54:03,119
whatever it's sensing right so you shine

3255
01:54:06,830 --> 01:54:04,719
a flashlight on it

3256
01:54:09,830 --> 01:54:06,840
and it's going to try to interrogate

3257
01:54:11,669 --> 01:54:09,840
that the source of that light

3258
01:54:13,910 --> 01:54:11,679
in this case the guy holding the

3259
01:54:16,550 --> 01:54:13,920
flashlight or or the flashlight itself

3260
01:54:18,870 --> 01:54:16,560
that the light's coming from

3261
01:54:19,750 --> 01:54:18,880
and whether it's intentional not who

3262
01:54:28,790 --> 01:54:19,760
knows

3263
01:54:31,030 --> 01:54:28,800
don't see that again

3264
01:54:32,550 --> 01:54:31,040
yeah i mean but again you're talk if you

3265
01:54:34,550 --> 01:54:32,560
if you go down the path of this this

3266
01:54:37,589 --> 01:54:34,560
black technology or something and we're

3267
01:54:38,790 --> 01:54:37,599
flying this out over over uh rural

3268
01:54:40,229 --> 01:54:38,800
america

3269
01:54:42,149 --> 01:54:40,239
encountering

3270
01:54:43,669 --> 01:54:42,159
completely innocent people that are

3271
01:54:45,350 --> 01:54:43,679
curious

3272
01:54:47,830 --> 01:54:45,360
that that's just

3273
01:54:49,910 --> 01:54:47,840
we're making assumptions here

3274
01:54:52,149 --> 01:54:49,920
that yeah i'm just trying i'm trying to

3275
01:54:53,669 --> 01:54:52,159
i'm trying to be as open-minded as

3276
01:54:55,109 --> 01:54:53,679
possible what i'm saying we're making i

3277
01:54:57,510 --> 01:54:55,119
agree with you i agree with you though

3278
01:54:59,830 --> 01:54:57,520
we're making assumptions that that

3279
01:55:02,310 --> 01:54:59,840
organizations that have

3280
01:55:05,510 --> 01:55:02,320
or might have

3281
01:55:07,350 --> 01:55:05,520
some technology

3282
01:55:10,070 --> 01:55:07,360
that's black

3283
01:55:12,470 --> 01:55:10,080
or whether it's the air force testing

3284
01:55:13,910 --> 01:55:12,480
some sort of a helicopter or an aircraft

3285
01:55:15,910 --> 01:55:13,920
whatever it is

3286
01:55:18,229 --> 01:55:15,920
you're making an assumption

3287
01:55:20,390 --> 01:55:18,239
that they're trying to harm no living

3288
01:55:23,189 --> 01:55:20,400
thing right i mean we that they're

3289
01:55:25,270 --> 01:55:23,199
trying to and so that takes you back to

3290
01:55:27,030 --> 01:55:25,280
why would they be

3291
01:55:29,589 --> 01:55:27,040
testing something

3292
01:55:31,750 --> 01:55:29,599
or using it operationally

3293
01:55:33,830 --> 01:55:31,760
it's it's well beyond the testing phase

3294
01:55:35,589 --> 01:55:33,840
say it's in the operational phase why

3295
01:55:38,310 --> 01:55:35,599
would they be operating something out

3296
01:55:41,350 --> 01:55:38,320
like this out in the civilian world

3297
01:55:42,390 --> 01:55:41,360
right putting people at risk it doesn't

3298
01:55:46,310 --> 01:55:42,400
add up

3299
01:55:47,990 --> 01:55:46,320
but we're making assumptions that

3300
01:55:51,430 --> 01:55:48,000
that they're following

3301
01:55:53,750 --> 01:55:51,440
the guidelines rules and norms

3302
01:55:54,950 --> 01:55:53,760
that uh that you would expect them to be

3303
01:55:57,030 --> 01:55:54,960
following

3304
01:55:58,709 --> 01:55:57,040
if this were a government

3305
01:56:01,430 --> 01:55:58,719
piece of government technology being

3306
01:56:04,470 --> 01:56:01,440
tested by a government program

3307
01:56:07,109 --> 01:56:04,480
the assumption is it would be tested

3308
01:56:10,390 --> 01:56:07,119
in a vast test area

3309
01:56:12,470 --> 01:56:10,400
suitable for those tests not

3310
01:56:14,550 --> 01:56:12,480
out in the open

3311
01:56:17,750 --> 01:56:14,560
and harming the public that's an

3312
01:56:19,750 --> 01:56:17,760
assumption we're making

3313
01:56:20,790 --> 01:56:19,760
so

3314
01:56:25,109 --> 01:56:20,800
if you

3315
01:56:26,550 --> 01:56:25,119
to the extent that it's

3316
01:56:28,950 --> 01:56:26,560
you're really seeing a lot of people

3317
01:56:29,990 --> 01:56:28,960
being harmed over over vast numbers of

3318
01:56:32,629 --> 01:56:30,000
cases

3319
01:56:34,790 --> 01:56:32,639
and i to me it points to

3320
01:56:36,790 --> 01:56:34,800
it's not the government right because

3321
01:56:39,030 --> 01:56:36,800
there's a certain amount of trust and

3322
01:56:40,390 --> 01:56:39,040
faith in your government right that

3323
01:56:43,350 --> 01:56:40,400
they're there

3324
01:56:45,910 --> 01:56:43,360
to protect and defend

3325
01:56:47,430 --> 01:56:45,920
and and not harm us

3326
01:56:50,070 --> 01:56:47,440
but

3327
01:56:51,350 --> 01:56:50,080
and dhs may have dhs may have just shown

3328
01:56:54,149 --> 01:56:51,360
up because they wanted to know what the

3329
01:56:55,669 --> 01:56:54,159
heck that was they had no idea um

3330
01:56:58,149 --> 01:56:55,679
and the other the other argument would

3331
01:56:59,510 --> 01:56:58,159
be well and i'm not sure if kit green

3332
01:57:00,950 --> 01:56:59,520
would say this but it's not our

3333
01:57:02,629 --> 01:57:00,960
government it's something

3334
01:57:04,950 --> 01:57:02,639
operating outside of the constitution

3335
01:57:07,350 --> 01:57:04,960
it's you know it's a separate group

3336
01:57:09,589 --> 01:57:07,360
um but once again it's like

3337
01:57:11,830 --> 01:57:09,599
that's total speculation i have not seen

3338
01:57:13,750 --> 01:57:11,840
any evidence for that i don't know

3339
01:57:14,950 --> 01:57:13,760
i don't know but folks who have

3340
01:57:17,830 --> 01:57:14,960
questions

3341
01:57:20,310 --> 01:57:17,840
because we're i'm running out of

3342
01:57:22,550 --> 01:57:20,320
material that i have taken notes on one

3343
01:57:24,470 --> 01:57:22,560
of the most exciting things for me

3344
01:57:27,270 --> 01:57:24,480
in the book talked about it said hidden

3345
01:57:30,149 --> 01:57:27,280
hidden within the voluminous asap bass

3346
01:57:31,830 --> 01:57:30,159
report delivered to dia which is a list

3347
01:57:33,750 --> 01:57:31,840
independent appendix one of all the

3348
01:57:36,870 --> 01:57:33,760
reports not the actual report just the

3349
01:57:39,830 --> 01:57:36,880
titles was a small gem that detailed the

3350
01:57:42,709 --> 01:57:39,840
design component selection manufacture

3351
01:57:45,750 --> 01:57:42,719
and assembly of a prototype for a fully

3352
01:57:48,070 --> 01:57:45,760
autonomous uap surveillance program that

3353
01:57:49,669 --> 01:57:48,080
could be trucked to a location and left

3354
01:57:50,790 --> 01:57:49,679
to gather data

3355
01:57:52,390 --> 01:57:50,800
and

3356
01:57:54,709 --> 01:57:52,400
the program stopped before they can do

3357
01:57:56,629 --> 01:57:54,719
that that would be something michael in

3358
01:57:58,629 --> 01:57:56,639
hot spots or in certain cities it would

3359
01:58:00,470 --> 01:57:58,639
be something amazing to have

3360
01:58:03,270 --> 01:58:00,480
you know if we can get that funded that

3361
01:58:07,350 --> 01:58:04,229
i i

3362
01:58:10,629 --> 01:58:07,360
on one side of the fence i agree

3363
01:58:13,350 --> 01:58:10,639
but remember i i i don't

3364
01:58:15,830 --> 01:58:13,360
believe for a minute

3365
01:58:17,189 --> 01:58:15,840
that um

3366
01:58:19,589 --> 01:58:17,199
that the government hasn't been

3367
01:58:22,229 --> 01:58:19,599
seriously involved in in this in this

3368
01:58:24,629 --> 01:58:22,239
topic for decades reinventing the wheel

3369
01:58:26,390 --> 01:58:24,639
i agree and i and i

3370
01:58:28,470 --> 01:58:26,400
personally believe

3371
01:58:30,550 --> 01:58:28,480
that uh after

3372
01:58:33,430 --> 01:58:30,560
after reading this book

3373
01:58:34,320 --> 01:58:33,440
given how i feel about that

3374
01:58:35,589 --> 01:58:34,330
that um

3375
01:58:38,070 --> 01:58:35,599
[Music]

3376
01:58:39,109 --> 01:58:38,080
all the pushback they get from program

3377
01:58:42,870 --> 01:58:39,119
adoption

3378
01:58:45,669 --> 01:58:42,880
i mean by that is trying to find a home

3379
01:58:48,470 --> 01:58:47,350
maybe they're not getting a home for it

3380
01:58:50,709 --> 01:58:48,480
because

3381
01:58:53,669 --> 01:58:50,719
they don't they don't need it

3382
01:58:55,350 --> 01:58:53,679
right all the signals are there

3383
01:58:57,350 --> 01:58:55,360
saying that

3384
01:58:58,629 --> 01:58:57,360
this is a waste of time and effort

3385
01:59:00,070 --> 01:58:58,639
because

3386
01:59:01,270 --> 01:59:00,080
you know they're gonna let it putter

3387
01:59:08,870 --> 01:59:01,280
along

3388
01:59:10,870 --> 01:59:08,880
but in reality

3389
01:59:11,830 --> 01:59:10,880
do we really think

3390
01:59:14,470 --> 01:59:11,840
that

3391
01:59:17,030 --> 01:59:14,480
after decades of these things

3392
01:59:20,629 --> 01:59:17,040
this phenomena just taking our sensitive

3393
01:59:23,070 --> 01:59:20,639
facilities as an example after decades

3394
01:59:25,990 --> 01:59:23,080
of sightings and

3395
01:59:27,990 --> 01:59:26,000
interactions with these vehicles around

3396
01:59:29,589 --> 01:59:28,000
our most sensitive

3397
01:59:32,709 --> 01:59:29,599
department of energy

3398
01:59:35,030 --> 01:59:32,719
and dod sites particularly the nuclear

3399
01:59:36,870 --> 01:59:35,040
nuclear missile installations

3400
01:59:39,990 --> 01:59:36,880
we don't even know about

3401
01:59:42,470 --> 01:59:40,000
the places that manufacture these

3402
01:59:44,310 --> 01:59:42,480
weapons like pantex

3403
01:59:46,629 --> 01:59:44,320
and um

3404
01:59:49,750 --> 01:59:46,639
oak ridge

3405
01:59:51,350 --> 01:59:49,760
los alamos hanford washington we know

3406
01:59:53,830 --> 01:59:51,360
that there have been sightings at those

3407
01:59:57,430 --> 01:59:53,840
places because there are

3408
01:59:59,910 --> 01:59:57,440
multiple reports over the decades right

3409
02:00:03,910 --> 02:00:01,830
but how if you're if you're the

3410
02:00:05,990 --> 02:00:03,920
government

3411
02:00:08,709 --> 02:00:06,000
and you i'm just gonna say it there your

3412
02:00:10,310 --> 02:00:08,719
ufos hovering over your weapons your

3413
02:00:13,750 --> 02:00:10,320
nuclear weapons

3414
02:00:16,149 --> 02:00:13,760
research facilities and and

3415
02:00:17,510 --> 02:00:16,159
nuclear weapons material manufacturing

3416
02:00:20,470 --> 02:00:17,520
plants

3417
02:00:23,430 --> 02:00:20,480
how are you not interested in that

3418
02:00:25,830 --> 02:00:23,440
how are you not

3419
02:00:29,270 --> 02:00:25,840
pulling out all the stops to figure out

3420
02:00:30,470 --> 02:00:29,280
what in the hell is going on

3421
02:00:35,510 --> 02:00:30,480
number one

3422
02:00:39,109 --> 02:00:38,229
after that after you ruled the adversary

3423
02:00:41,270 --> 02:00:39,119
out

3424
02:00:43,350 --> 02:00:41,280
what else is it do you think do we

3425
02:00:45,830 --> 02:00:43,360
really seriously think that they only

3426
02:00:47,430 --> 02:00:45,840
just started asking this question

3427
02:00:53,430 --> 02:00:47,440
we don't really know what it is there

3428
02:00:56,790 --> 02:00:54,870
we're going to try to

3429
02:00:58,870 --> 02:00:56,800
find a new home for the task force we're

3430
02:01:00,550 --> 02:00:58,880
going to try to give them all this data

3431
02:01:05,669 --> 02:01:00,560
seriously

3432
02:01:08,470 --> 02:01:07,430
you're not going to convince me for a

3433
02:01:10,629 --> 02:01:08,480
minute

3434
02:01:13,430 --> 02:01:10,639
that we haven't been very seriously

3435
02:01:14,870 --> 02:01:13,440
involved in this stuff so at some level

3436
02:01:18,390 --> 02:01:14,880
in the most

3437
02:01:19,750 --> 02:01:18,400
secret restricted protected way

3438
02:01:22,550 --> 02:01:19,760
possible

3439
02:01:24,629 --> 02:01:22,560
because there's something about it that

3440
02:01:26,550 --> 02:01:24,639
if it was so simple

3441
02:01:28,950 --> 02:01:26,560
they would have told us some aspects

3442
02:01:31,030 --> 02:01:28,960
more than what they told us about it

3443
02:01:32,950 --> 02:01:31,040
and at their days most days i agree

3444
02:01:35,189 --> 02:01:32,960
exactly what you're saying other days i

3445
02:01:36,870 --> 02:01:35,199
i delude myself in pretending that they

3446
02:01:38,149 --> 02:01:36,880
don't know and all this effort is

3447
02:01:41,430 --> 02:01:38,159
something that needs to be done so we

3448
02:01:43,430 --> 02:01:41,440
can learn but yeah in reality my opinion

3449
02:01:45,430 --> 02:01:43,440
we don't need it we know

3450
02:01:47,030 --> 02:01:45,440
we know a lot i don't know

3451
02:01:49,189 --> 02:01:47,040
i don't know if a new effort could take

3452
02:01:50,709 --> 02:01:49,199
us beyond what they already know i don't

3453
02:01:52,229 --> 02:01:50,719
know with more

3454
02:01:53,910 --> 02:01:52,239
you know advanced technology from what

3455
02:01:55,669 --> 02:01:53,920
they have stored in their data from the

3456
02:01:57,270 --> 02:01:55,679
old years and whatever

3457
02:01:59,189 --> 02:01:57,280
if they're still doing it up until now

3458
02:02:00,950 --> 02:01:59,199
then we then no

3459
02:02:03,830 --> 02:02:00,960
but if it stopped at some point then yes

3460
02:02:06,149 --> 02:02:03,840
then a new effort would help but yes um

3461
02:02:07,510 --> 02:02:06,159
i agree but that's yeah i go back and

3462
02:02:09,510 --> 02:02:07,520
forth while like you know people talk

3463
02:02:11,669 --> 02:02:09,520
about going out and just getting data

3464
02:02:13,270 --> 02:02:11,679
from civilians i'm like

3465
02:02:15,350 --> 02:02:13,280
i don't know if it's really needed like

3466
02:02:17,350 --> 02:02:15,360
you said um but i'm gonna go for

3467
02:02:18,310 --> 02:02:17,360
questions since i can actually see them

3468
02:02:19,589 --> 02:02:18,320
i don't know if we're going to be able

3469
02:02:21,750 --> 02:02:19,599
to answer this one can you see that it

3470
02:02:23,910 --> 02:02:21,760
says so joe and michael what are your

3471
02:02:25,350 --> 02:02:23,920
best guesses as to what and where is

3472
02:02:27,030 --> 02:02:25,360
this phenomena

3473
02:02:31,350 --> 02:02:27,040
reported in this book

3474
02:02:32,870 --> 02:02:31,360
uh is what is it it all sounds insane

3475
02:02:35,030 --> 02:02:32,880
you want to want me to take that first

3476
02:02:37,990 --> 02:02:35,040
and you

3477
02:02:39,510 --> 02:02:38,000
well i'll just say i have no idea

3478
02:02:42,310 --> 02:02:39,520
but uh

3479
02:02:43,910 --> 02:02:42,320
it's pretty clear to me

3480
02:02:46,550 --> 02:02:43,920
again

3481
02:02:48,470 --> 02:02:46,560
taking the book which has

3482
02:02:49,830 --> 02:02:48,480
so many

3483
02:02:50,950 --> 02:02:49,840
interesting little

3484
02:02:52,709 --> 02:02:50,960
snippets

3485
02:02:55,030 --> 02:02:52,719
that tie into things that have been

3486
02:02:57,830 --> 02:02:55,040
reported in one way or another

3487
02:03:02,149 --> 02:02:57,840
going back decades

3488
02:03:07,189 --> 02:03:04,950
it is to me i don't i don't believe it's

3489
02:03:09,430 --> 02:03:07,199
government involvement because a lot of

3490
02:03:12,070 --> 02:03:09,440
these things were being observed back

3491
02:03:14,470 --> 02:03:12,080
before we had

3492
02:03:17,669 --> 02:03:14,480
the ability to have such advanced

3493
02:03:22,870 --> 02:03:20,229
and i i think it's

3494
02:03:24,310 --> 02:03:22,880
once again i don't know um

3495
02:03:26,629 --> 02:03:24,320
i don't know what's going on i have

3496
02:03:28,070 --> 02:03:26,639
opinions that change not every day you

3497
02:03:29,510 --> 02:03:28,080
know you read something you're like that

3498
02:03:31,589 --> 02:03:29,520
makes sense and i'm like oh maybe that's

3499
02:03:33,669 --> 02:03:31,599
what's going on uh i don't know if it's

3500
02:03:35,750 --> 02:03:33,679
one phenomenon that's been here the

3501
02:03:37,990 --> 02:03:35,760
entire time before humans

3502
02:03:39,030 --> 02:03:38,000
uh trying to wake us up

3503
02:03:41,109 --> 02:03:39,040
um

3504
02:03:42,550 --> 02:03:41,119
if it's if it's you know if it's higher

3505
02:03:44,950 --> 02:03:42,560
up in the food chain and they're

3506
02:03:46,790 --> 02:03:44,960
damaging or killing some of us you know

3507
02:03:48,390 --> 02:03:46,800
what do we think about you know when we

3508
02:03:49,750 --> 02:03:48,400
injure or kill something that's lower in

3509
02:03:51,350 --> 02:03:49,760
the food chain we don't give it as we

3510
02:03:54,149 --> 02:03:51,360
don't give it much thought that could be

3511
02:03:55,669 --> 02:03:54,159
what's going on i don't know um

3512
02:03:56,390 --> 02:03:55,679
but like i said then you have people who

3513
02:03:58,069 --> 02:03:56,400
have

3514
02:03:59,510 --> 02:03:58,079
experiences where it just changes their

3515
02:04:02,470 --> 02:03:59,520
life you know they have these spiritual

3516
02:04:05,270 --> 02:04:02,480
breakthroughs so

3517
02:04:07,030 --> 02:04:05,280
is it one phenomenon is it a whole bunch

3518
02:04:09,189 --> 02:04:07,040
of different things

3519
02:04:10,870 --> 02:04:09,199
i don't know i mean

3520
02:04:12,390 --> 02:04:10,880
like i said ask me next week i may have

3521
02:04:14,310 --> 02:04:12,400
a different opinion i think there's

3522
02:04:15,910 --> 02:04:14,320
anomalous activity going on and it's

3523
02:04:17,430 --> 02:04:15,920
interacting with us and that's as far as

3524
02:04:18,709 --> 02:04:17,440
i know

3525
02:04:19,990 --> 02:04:18,719
i don't know what this next question

3526
02:04:21,270 --> 02:04:20,000
means but i'll put it up there maybe you

3527
02:04:23,510 --> 02:04:21,280
can make it out

3528
02:04:26,790 --> 02:04:23,520
would you ask mr vi about why our

3529
02:04:28,149 --> 02:04:26,800
company would give a second warning

3530
02:04:29,910 --> 02:04:28,159
tell them we have overstepped our

3531
02:04:31,669 --> 02:04:29,920
boundaries put in place

3532
02:04:35,830 --> 02:04:31,679
in space between us and our company do

3533
02:04:40,069 --> 02:04:37,270
no

3534
02:04:41,910 --> 02:04:40,079
all right let's see

3535
02:04:43,589 --> 02:04:41,920
after 70 years of secrecy why is the

3536
02:04:45,990 --> 02:04:43,599
government suddenly becoming more

3537
02:04:47,669 --> 02:04:46,000
forthcoming i'll start with that one uh

3538
02:04:49,510 --> 02:04:47,679
i think it's because of the efforts of

3539
02:04:51,270 --> 02:04:49,520
louisando chris mellon and the people

3540
02:04:53,030 --> 02:04:51,280
behind the scenes i mean that's what

3541
02:04:54,550 --> 02:04:53,040
happened melon had the experience

3542
02:04:56,149 --> 02:04:54,560
working with all those folks he knows

3543
02:04:58,310 --> 02:04:56,159
how to work the system how to get you

3544
02:05:00,470 --> 02:04:58,320
know certain language he helped write

3545
02:05:02,470 --> 02:05:00,480
uh and lou quit his job and did what he

3546
02:05:03,750 --> 02:05:02,480
did and i think that's i don't know if

3547
02:05:05,589 --> 02:05:03,760
there's anything else going on with the

3548
02:05:07,189 --> 02:05:05,599
phenomenon that's pushing it in this

3549
02:05:08,870 --> 02:05:07,199
direction i know we've all speculated

3550
02:05:10,629 --> 02:05:08,880
about that you know more ink more

3551
02:05:12,629 --> 02:05:10,639
sightings with military

3552
02:05:14,709 --> 02:05:12,639
i don't know that's my opinion that it

3553
02:05:16,229 --> 02:05:14,719
it's basically those guys are pushing

3554
02:05:18,470 --> 02:05:16,239
and you're having more open-mindedness

3555
02:05:21,430 --> 02:05:18,480
my open-mindedness with with somebody

3556
02:05:23,510 --> 02:05:21,440
like rubio and warner

3557
02:05:27,669 --> 02:05:23,520
and a whole bunch of other folks who are

3558
02:05:32,870 --> 02:05:30,390
i think um

3559
02:05:35,910 --> 02:05:32,880
you know how i feel about tom delong

3560
02:05:42,390 --> 02:05:37,750
so

3561
02:05:46,069 --> 02:05:42,400
along the lines of this question is uh

3562
02:05:48,390 --> 02:05:46,079
for example commercial access to space

3563
02:05:50,870 --> 02:05:48,400
and basically what that means is what do

3564
02:05:51,910 --> 02:05:50,880
we see happening in the news almost

3565
02:05:52,790 --> 02:05:51,920
weekly

3566
02:05:54,470 --> 02:05:52,800
um

3567
02:05:57,589 --> 02:05:54,480
jeff bezos

3568
02:05:59,910 --> 02:05:57,599
uh just put william shatner and three or

3569
02:06:01,350 --> 02:05:59,920
four others up above the carmen the

3570
02:06:02,950 --> 02:06:01,360
carmen line

3571
02:06:04,709 --> 02:06:02,960
for a few for a couple of seconds

3572
02:06:05,510 --> 02:06:04,719
however long they were out there in zero

3573
02:06:11,589 --> 02:06:05,520
g

3574
02:06:15,270 --> 02:06:11,599
capability

3575
02:06:18,550 --> 02:06:15,280
to access space in varying degrees

3576
02:06:23,189 --> 02:06:18,560
you have spacex who's gone well beyond

3577
02:06:27,830 --> 02:06:26,069
transporting supplies up to iss

3578
02:06:29,270 --> 02:06:27,840
launching satellites

3579
02:06:31,430 --> 02:06:29,280
with with

3580
02:06:33,189 --> 02:06:31,440
future missions planned to go well

3581
02:06:35,990 --> 02:06:33,199
beyond that right

3582
02:06:38,310 --> 02:06:36,000
and de long made references

3583
02:06:40,790 --> 02:06:38,320
um

3584
02:06:43,350 --> 02:06:40,800
and before i say a lot more about

3585
02:06:44,790 --> 02:06:43,360
what de long has said remember i i

3586
02:06:47,109 --> 02:06:44,800
remember

3587
02:06:50,390 --> 02:06:47,119
and i would ask others to look into it

3588
02:06:55,109 --> 02:06:52,950
back in the 2015-2016 time frame when de

3589
02:06:57,109 --> 02:06:55,119
long was talking about

3590
02:06:59,430 --> 02:06:57,119
his advisors

3591
02:07:01,910 --> 02:06:59,440
and then if you follow even just the

3592
02:07:03,430 --> 02:07:01,920
latest revelations in the book

3593
02:07:05,510 --> 02:07:03,440
from um

3594
02:07:08,390 --> 02:07:05,520
ross coldheart

3595
02:07:11,350 --> 02:07:08,400
where he also looked into the long and

3596
02:07:13,830 --> 02:07:11,360
belongs revelations

3597
02:07:15,669 --> 02:07:13,840
and the connectivity between the long

3598
02:07:17,189 --> 02:07:15,679
and very

3599
02:07:19,189 --> 02:07:17,199
highly placed

3600
02:07:21,830 --> 02:07:19,199
government

3601
02:07:24,149 --> 02:07:21,840
agency heads organization heads military

3602
02:07:27,109 --> 02:07:24,159
guys generals admirals and so forth

3603
02:07:29,589 --> 02:07:27,119
people that he claims are his advisors

3604
02:07:31,030 --> 02:07:29,599
things that as cold heart

3605
02:07:33,669 --> 02:07:31,040
pointed out

3606
02:07:35,430 --> 02:07:33,679
were leaked through the wikileaks

3607
02:07:36,470 --> 02:07:35,440
series of leaks from the democratic

3608
02:07:38,790 --> 02:07:36,480
national

3609
02:07:40,390 --> 02:07:38,800
from the dnc hack right

3610
02:07:43,109 --> 02:07:40,400
right so we know these communications

3611
02:07:44,870 --> 02:07:43,119
were taking place so there's a

3612
02:07:47,189 --> 02:07:44,880
there's a body of evidence that shows

3613
02:07:49,109 --> 02:07:47,199
that the long

3614
02:07:51,510 --> 02:07:49,119
has a

3615
02:07:54,709 --> 02:07:51,520
a believable basis for saying some of

3616
02:07:56,870 --> 02:07:54,719
the things that he said all right and so

3617
02:07:58,470 --> 02:07:56,880
he has said that one of the reasons why

3618
02:07:59,830 --> 02:07:58,480
the government is being more open about

3619
02:08:02,069 --> 02:07:59,840
this now

3620
02:08:03,669 --> 02:08:02,079
is because of things like commercial

3621
02:08:05,510 --> 02:08:03,679
access to space

3622
02:08:07,510 --> 02:08:05,520
we are now going to not be solely

3623
02:08:11,189 --> 02:08:07,520
relying upon what the government tells

3624
02:08:14,069 --> 02:08:11,199
us about what's in space what's orbiting

3625
02:08:17,030 --> 02:08:14,079
around the earth what's on the moon

3626
02:08:19,669 --> 02:08:17,040
what's on mars and beyond because we're

3627
02:08:21,910 --> 02:08:19,679
going to now have commercial companies

3628
02:08:23,510 --> 02:08:21,920
that in the coming years or decades are

3629
02:08:25,669 --> 02:08:23,520
going to be venturing out and doing

3630
02:08:27,589 --> 02:08:25,679
things in these environments

3631
02:08:28,950 --> 02:08:27,599
that might what

3632
02:08:31,750 --> 02:08:28,960
see things

3633
02:08:34,310 --> 02:08:31,760
that heretofore have only been sort of

3634
02:08:39,350 --> 02:08:38,069
an obelisk on the moon

3635
02:08:42,709 --> 02:08:39,360
and

3636
02:08:47,109 --> 02:08:42,719
structures on mars

3637
02:08:50,470 --> 02:08:49,189
that so far

3638
02:08:52,950 --> 02:08:50,480
maybe only the government has the

3639
02:08:55,270 --> 02:08:52,960
technical capability to have pictures of

3640
02:08:56,950 --> 02:08:55,280
right or have sensor data on

3641
02:08:58,870 --> 02:08:56,960
but now with these commercial companies

3642
02:09:01,669 --> 02:08:58,880
venturing out

3643
02:09:03,669 --> 02:09:01,679
might they suddenly one day

3644
02:09:05,189 --> 02:09:03,679
fly past some other craft on their way

3645
02:09:07,669 --> 02:09:05,199
to the iss

3646
02:09:11,189 --> 02:09:07,679
and say oh what was that right so

3647
02:09:14,390 --> 02:09:11,199
uh i i i tend to

3648
02:09:16,069 --> 02:09:14,400
to when when de long especially the way

3649
02:09:18,229 --> 02:09:16,079
i just thought coltar did such a good

3650
02:09:19,830 --> 02:09:18,239
job of wrapping all that up and i had

3651
02:09:22,790 --> 02:09:19,840
read through the wikileaks files and

3652
02:09:26,550 --> 02:09:22,800
seen all of those communications

3653
02:09:31,109 --> 02:09:28,790
right so he really was apparently in

3654
02:09:34,470 --> 02:09:31,119
contact with these people and to hear

3655
02:09:36,790 --> 02:09:34,480
him his claims they told him some pretty

3656
02:09:37,160 --> 02:09:36,800
amazing right

3657
02:09:38,390 --> 02:09:37,170
um

3658
02:09:40,790 --> 02:09:38,400
[Music]

3659
02:09:41,589 --> 02:09:40,800
some of it's pretty astounding

3660
02:09:43,430 --> 02:09:41,599
and

3661
02:09:45,109 --> 02:09:43,440
maybe they feel like that they need to

3662
02:09:47,189 --> 02:09:45,119
go ahead and kind of brace us for what

3663
02:09:49,589 --> 02:09:47,199
we might potentially see

3664
02:09:52,950 --> 02:09:49,599
in the future

3665
02:09:54,870 --> 02:09:52,960
yeah and yeah i i i don't think chris p

3666
02:09:56,390 --> 02:09:54,880
i don't think tom delong lied one on

3667
02:09:58,390 --> 02:09:56,400
anything he said i just don't know if he

3668
02:09:59,990 --> 02:09:58,400
was told the truth by his advisors or

3669
02:10:01,430 --> 02:10:00,000
whoever else wherever else they were

3670
02:10:02,550 --> 02:10:01,440
getting the information

3671
02:10:03,990 --> 02:10:02,560
um

3672
02:10:05,910 --> 02:10:04,000
question from

3673
02:10:07,430 --> 02:10:05,920
mclaughlin mack so is there a place in

3674
02:10:09,669 --> 02:10:07,440
our brain that switched on when the

3675
02:10:12,390 --> 02:10:09,679
engagement when engaging the phenomenon

3676
02:10:14,390 --> 02:10:12,400
that stays on indoctrinating i mean gary

3677
02:10:16,550 --> 02:10:14,400
nolan has done work on that with the

3678
02:10:17,669 --> 02:10:16,560
caught at betanium which is not exactly

3679
02:10:19,830 --> 02:10:17,679
what he's talking about i don't know if

3680
02:10:21,750 --> 02:10:19,840
it's switched on and i need to read that

3681
02:10:23,430 --> 02:10:21,760
more because i don't understand

3682
02:10:25,430 --> 02:10:23,440
it's a it's a bunch of i don't know it's

3683
02:10:27,109 --> 02:10:25,440
like nerves that are that grow in

3684
02:10:28,229 --> 02:10:27,119
certain people who are more gifted i'm

3685
02:10:29,750 --> 02:10:28,239
not sure if it's because of the

3686
02:10:31,430 --> 02:10:29,760
phenomenon they have not made that

3687
02:10:33,109 --> 02:10:31,440
determination but there's something

3688
02:10:34,470 --> 02:10:33,119
going on there i know have you read any

3689
02:10:36,390 --> 02:10:34,480
of that or listened to gary nolan's

3690
02:10:37,830 --> 02:10:36,400
interviews on that just

3691
02:10:42,790 --> 02:10:37,840
uh

3692
02:10:47,030 --> 02:10:44,550
kid green

3693
02:10:49,350 --> 02:10:47,040
studying the sort of some of the some of

3694
02:10:51,750 --> 02:10:49,360
the human aspects of this stuff

3695
02:10:54,149 --> 02:10:51,760
he doesn't really to me i mean you know

3696
02:10:54,830 --> 02:10:54,159
much more about kids research than i do

3697
02:10:57,350 --> 02:10:54,840
but

3698
02:11:00,229 --> 02:10:57,360
they're reportedly

3699
02:11:03,510 --> 02:11:00,239
um this ability

3700
02:11:05,189 --> 02:11:03,520
of engaging with the phenomenon is it

3701
02:11:08,149 --> 02:11:05,199
it's innate

3702
02:11:11,270 --> 02:11:08,159
in our species if you will

3703
02:11:13,109 --> 02:11:11,280
and i'm just repeating what i've read um

3704
02:11:13,990 --> 02:11:13,119
and that it can be

3705
02:11:15,270 --> 02:11:14,000
uh

3706
02:11:16,709 --> 02:11:15,280
tuned

3707
02:11:18,790 --> 02:11:16,719
or trained

3708
02:11:20,229 --> 02:11:18,800
or exercised

3709
02:11:21,830 --> 02:11:20,239
uh

3710
02:11:23,350 --> 02:11:21,840
and and and

3711
02:11:25,510 --> 02:11:23,360
improved

3712
02:11:27,270 --> 02:11:25,520
and people can become more proficient in

3713
02:11:29,750 --> 02:11:27,280
it

3714
02:11:31,589 --> 02:11:29,760
to the extent that you know someone like

3715
02:11:32,870 --> 02:11:31,599
i could do that i don't i don't know i

3716
02:11:36,310 --> 02:11:32,880
have

3717
02:11:41,669 --> 02:11:38,470
dabbled into some of this uh remote

3718
02:11:44,709 --> 02:11:41,679
viewing in the the esp trainer app and

3719
02:11:47,270 --> 02:11:44,719
others uh other other aspects of it

3720
02:11:49,109 --> 02:11:47,280
just and i have actually seen some

3721
02:11:51,430 --> 02:11:49,119
results personally that were what i

3722
02:11:53,030 --> 02:11:51,440
thought were better than chance but

3723
02:11:54,629 --> 02:11:53,040
you know at this point i was just

3724
02:11:56,629 --> 02:11:54,639
putting my toe in the water based on

3725
02:11:58,790 --> 02:11:56,639
some stuff that i had read and

3726
02:12:00,069 --> 02:11:58,800
trying to put two and two together

3727
02:12:03,109 --> 02:12:00,079
but um

3728
02:12:05,189 --> 02:12:03,119
speaking of remote viewing

3729
02:12:07,350 --> 02:12:05,199
so joe mcmonicle who's one of the best

3730
02:12:09,270 --> 02:12:07,360
remote viewers in the world who is

3731
02:12:11,589 --> 02:12:09,280
remoteviewer001

3732
02:12:12,470 --> 02:12:11,599
was did a blind session on skinwalker

3733
02:12:14,390 --> 02:12:12,480
ranch

3734
02:12:16,470 --> 02:12:14,400
yeah this was pretty amazing i thought

3735
02:12:19,030 --> 02:12:16,480
he's amazing he's a really really

3736
02:12:20,629 --> 02:12:19,040
technical he can draw really well

3737
02:12:22,470 --> 02:12:20,639
uh and he talked about

3738
02:12:23,910 --> 02:12:22,480
picking up a small being that was there

3739
02:12:25,589 --> 02:12:23,920
that was trying to communicate with the

3740
02:12:27,350 --> 02:12:25,599
people there and the in

3741
02:12:29,510 --> 02:12:27,360
it was coming from above and behind

3742
02:12:31,750 --> 02:12:29,520
their heads to communication

3743
02:12:34,310 --> 02:12:31,760
so that's uh yeah that's the kind of

3744
02:12:36,229 --> 02:12:34,320
work mcmonicle can do obviously the the

3745
02:12:37,910 --> 02:12:36,239
being that he picked up there's no way

3746
02:12:40,470 --> 02:12:37,920
to prove any of that no feedback but you

3747
02:12:42,870 --> 02:12:40,480
can get feedback on that his drawing of

3748
02:12:44,470 --> 02:12:42,880
the outlay of the land yeah so so if you

3749
02:12:46,790 --> 02:12:44,480
hold that for a second

3750
02:12:49,109 --> 02:12:46,800
going back to this past summer's i guess

3751
02:12:51,430 --> 02:12:49,119
season two of the skinwalker series on

3752
02:12:53,910 --> 02:12:51,440
history channel

3753
02:12:56,310 --> 02:12:53,920
if you saw that you recall that uh

3754
02:12:57,910 --> 02:12:56,320
brandon fugel's brother

3755
02:13:00,229 --> 02:12:57,920
is the pilot

3756
02:13:01,510 --> 02:13:00,239
of the company helicopter right

3757
02:13:04,149 --> 02:13:01,520
and they use

3758
02:13:06,390 --> 02:13:04,159
dr travis taylor and his one of his

3759
02:13:07,589 --> 02:13:06,400
colleagues i forget the guy's name uh

3760
02:13:08,950 --> 02:13:07,599
chris

3761
02:13:10,069 --> 02:13:08,960
um

3762
02:13:12,629 --> 02:13:10,079
anyway

3763
02:13:13,750 --> 02:13:12,639
taylor and another of the scientists

3764
02:13:16,870 --> 02:13:13,760
there

3765
02:13:19,669 --> 02:13:16,880
went up in this helicopter to this point

3766
02:13:21,589 --> 02:13:19,679
above the ranch several thousand feet up

3767
02:13:24,310 --> 02:13:21,599
and they end up having to abort because

3768
02:13:26,390 --> 02:13:24,320
of instrumentation anomalies their radar

3769
02:13:29,109 --> 02:13:26,400
altimeter

3770
02:13:31,270 --> 02:13:29,119
which was checked out

3771
02:13:32,550 --> 02:13:31,280
and fully functional and operating

3772
02:13:35,430 --> 02:13:32,560
normally

3773
02:13:36,629 --> 02:13:35,440
was detecting something underneath their

3774
02:13:37,669 --> 02:13:36,639
aircraft

3775
02:13:40,069 --> 02:13:37,679
and they

3776
02:13:41,990 --> 02:13:40,079
it was to the point that

3777
02:13:45,030 --> 02:13:42,000
that uh i forget his brother's name the

3778
02:13:45,910 --> 02:13:45,040
pilot he became so uncomfortable with

3779
02:13:49,990 --> 02:13:45,920
that

3780
02:13:51,270 --> 02:13:50,000
they had all this instrumentation on

3781
02:13:54,950 --> 02:13:51,280
board

3782
02:13:56,550 --> 02:13:54,960
because of this anomaly that was showing

3783
02:14:00,069 --> 02:13:56,560
something

3784
02:14:02,390 --> 02:14:00,079
was hovering or flying or floating

3785
02:14:04,310 --> 02:14:02,400
underneath that helicopter that was

3786
02:14:06,229 --> 02:14:04,320
several thousand feet above that hot

3787
02:14:07,910 --> 02:14:06,239
spot there on the ranch

3788
02:14:12,550 --> 02:14:07,920
so this aspect of

3789
02:14:14,390 --> 02:14:12,560
this uh of mcmonagle picking up this

3790
02:14:15,430 --> 02:14:14,400
what do you say a humanoid

3791
02:14:17,510 --> 02:14:15,440
yeah

3792
02:14:20,069 --> 02:14:17,520
yes a being that was above and behind

3793
02:14:22,390 --> 02:14:20,079
them i when i read that i thought

3794
02:14:24,390 --> 02:14:22,400
immediately back to that to that series

3795
02:14:27,910 --> 02:14:24,400
this summer and how they went up with

3796
02:14:30,069 --> 02:14:27,920
that helicopter and and had to uh had to

3797
02:14:33,430 --> 02:14:30,079
abort the mission

3798
02:14:36,870 --> 02:14:33,440
i'm gonna i'm gonna find exactly

3799
02:14:38,149 --> 02:14:36,880
what it says about what mcmonicle

3800
02:14:40,310 --> 02:14:38,159
found

3801
02:14:42,069 --> 02:14:40,320
there it is so this is what he said and

3802
02:14:43,589 --> 02:14:42,079
this is what it says in the book it says

3803
02:14:45,750 --> 02:14:43,599
and let me say one more thing i know

3804
02:14:47,750 --> 02:14:45,760
that that is a history channel show

3805
02:14:49,270 --> 02:14:47,760
and you know just so people don't think

3806
02:14:51,350 --> 02:14:49,280
that i'm running wild here with

3807
02:14:52,830 --> 02:14:51,360
everything that they're saying michael

3808
02:14:54,870 --> 02:14:52,840
vibe believes

3809
02:14:55,830 --> 02:14:54,880
everything i'm just

3810
02:14:57,669 --> 02:14:55,840
again

3811
02:14:59,430 --> 02:14:57,679
i base it on

3812
02:15:00,709 --> 02:14:59,440
the character

3813
02:15:02,470 --> 02:15:00,719
uh

3814
02:15:04,149 --> 02:15:02,480
and the professional and technical

3815
02:15:07,030 --> 02:15:04,159
acumen of the people that are on that

3816
02:15:08,870 --> 02:15:07,040
show and that they are actually real

3817
02:15:11,669 --> 02:15:08,880
known commodities

3818
02:15:14,149 --> 02:15:11,679
in the defense and intelligence world

3819
02:15:17,109 --> 02:15:14,159
travis taylor is

3820
02:15:21,510 --> 02:15:17,119
he's a real scientist he does real work

3821
02:15:25,430 --> 02:15:23,750
why he would jeopardize his career by

3822
02:15:27,189 --> 02:15:25,440
going on a show and completely

3823
02:15:28,550 --> 02:15:27,199
fabricating stuff for entertainment

3824
02:15:31,350 --> 02:15:28,560
purposes

3825
02:15:35,910 --> 02:15:33,750
i i think i think what they were showing

3826
02:15:37,750 --> 02:15:35,920
was was their real experiences there

3827
02:15:39,589 --> 02:15:37,760
that they were having i i definitely

3828
02:15:41,350 --> 02:15:39,599
believe that i i just would you know i

3829
02:15:43,589 --> 02:15:41,360
worked in a lot of tv shows i would do

3830
02:15:45,990 --> 02:15:43,599
it differently but i mean who am i i

3831
02:15:48,830 --> 02:15:46,000
just would do it more like unidentified

3832
02:15:51,510 --> 02:15:48,840
unidentified was closer to a documentary

3833
02:15:52,790 --> 02:15:51,520
than what you're seeing on history

3834
02:15:54,149 --> 02:15:52,800
channel but

3835
02:15:56,629 --> 02:15:54,159
you know well history channel is more of

3836
02:15:58,550 --> 02:15:56,639
a ride-along right it's sort of a

3837
02:15:59,830 --> 02:15:58,560
ride-along instead of a docu-series to

3838
02:16:01,270 --> 02:15:59,840
me but

3839
02:16:02,950 --> 02:16:01,280
you know unidentified with history

3840
02:16:05,189 --> 02:16:02,960
channel too there there are ways you can

3841
02:16:07,430 --> 02:16:05,199
do it but what the heck that's just

3842
02:16:10,390 --> 02:16:07,440
they're they're obviously their goal is

3843
02:16:12,310 --> 02:16:10,400
ratings yeah i i misspoke i meant

3844
02:16:14,390 --> 02:16:12,320
skin the skinwalker show is right it's

3845
02:16:15,990 --> 02:16:14,400
more of a ride alongside it's different

3846
02:16:18,790 --> 02:16:16,000
it's definitely different

3847
02:16:20,629 --> 02:16:18,800
yeah but i want to pull up what he said

3848
02:16:21,990 --> 02:16:20,639
so this is mcmonicle's remote viewing uh

3849
02:16:24,069 --> 02:16:22,000
they were they're talking about in the

3850
02:16:26,390 --> 02:16:24,079
book it said the fifth individual was

3851
02:16:28,629 --> 02:16:26,400
also present on the ranch mcmonicle

3852
02:16:30,870 --> 02:16:28,639
described a male 60 to 70 pounds with a

3853
02:16:31,669 --> 02:16:30,880
height of four foot three inches with no

3854
02:16:33,910 --> 02:16:31,679
hair

3855
02:16:35,509 --> 02:16:33,920
age was not able to be determined exact

3856
02:16:37,190 --> 02:16:35,519
physical features were unclear as

3857
02:16:39,110 --> 02:16:37,200
opposed to those of the managers and

3858
02:16:40,309 --> 02:16:39,120
guards which i would love to see the

3859
02:16:42,629 --> 02:16:40,319
session there's no reason why that

3860
02:16:44,549 --> 02:16:42,639
should not be released uh mcmonicle said

3861
02:16:46,950 --> 02:16:44,559
that the fifth individual could not be

3862
02:16:48,950 --> 02:16:46,960
seen by ranch personnel but did attempt

3863
02:16:51,030 --> 02:16:48,960
test communications with them to see

3864
02:16:53,110 --> 02:16:51,040
their response he indicated that the

3865
02:16:55,270 --> 02:16:53,120
communication was not precise or clear

3866
02:16:57,110 --> 02:16:55,280
and that to the individuals on the ranch

3867
02:16:59,270 --> 02:16:57,120
it would seem to be coming from above

3868
02:17:00,870 --> 02:16:59,280
and behind behind their heads people

3869
02:17:02,790 --> 02:17:00,880
have to realize joe mcmonicle is not

3870
02:17:04,709 --> 02:17:02,800
being told uh you're going to remote

3871
02:17:07,110 --> 02:17:04,719
view skinwalker ranch joe mcmonicle is

3872
02:17:09,990 --> 02:17:07,120
given eight numbers eight random numbers

3873
02:17:11,589 --> 02:17:10,000
that is it that's all he's given so

3874
02:17:13,030 --> 02:17:11,599
whether or not he's really picking up on

3875
02:17:15,110 --> 02:17:13,040
a being there's no way to know that but

3876
02:17:17,990 --> 02:17:15,120
the other stuff is accurate so at least

3877
02:17:19,270 --> 02:17:18,000
you know some of his data is accurate

3878
02:17:21,270 --> 02:17:19,280
there's a lot more questions michael

3879
02:17:23,110 --> 02:17:21,280
let's see

3880
02:17:25,990 --> 02:17:23,120
do you guys think the general public can

3881
02:17:28,309 --> 02:17:26,000
handle it you go first

3882
02:17:29,910 --> 02:17:28,319
well you know my opinion on this i think

3883
02:17:31,589 --> 02:17:29,920
if it was something simple that we could

3884
02:17:33,110 --> 02:17:31,599
all handle they would have told us long

3885
02:17:34,469 --> 02:17:33,120
ago

3886
02:17:36,150 --> 02:17:34,479
um

3887
02:17:38,309 --> 02:17:36,160
i think it is something very highly

3888
02:17:41,429 --> 02:17:38,319
complex

3889
02:17:47,429 --> 02:17:46,230
it possibly is is disturbing

3890
02:17:50,070 --> 02:17:47,439
and

3891
02:17:54,629 --> 02:17:50,080
could upset

3892
02:18:00,070 --> 02:17:57,110
and and i don't you know

3893
02:18:02,389 --> 02:18:00,080
again i do not for a minute think that

3894
02:18:03,830 --> 02:18:02,399
we have not been seriously studying this

3895
02:18:06,309 --> 02:18:03,840
for decades

3896
02:18:08,230 --> 02:18:06,319
and whatever it is we know

3897
02:18:10,469 --> 02:18:08,240
don't we that there's a crash retrieval

3898
02:18:12,070 --> 02:18:10,479
program

3899
02:18:13,589 --> 02:18:12,080
yeah i don't know if we know it we

3900
02:18:14,549 --> 02:18:13,599
believe it

3901
02:18:16,150 --> 02:18:14,559
well

3902
02:18:20,389 --> 02:18:16,160
eric davis

3903
02:18:23,669 --> 02:18:21,910
no yeah i just i'm just careful using

3904
02:18:24,870 --> 02:18:23,679
the no word um

3905
02:18:27,429 --> 02:18:24,880
i mean

3906
02:18:30,709 --> 02:18:27,439
i like what i'm saying so let me back up

3907
02:18:33,669 --> 02:18:30,719
yeah yeah so we have a bona fide

3908
02:18:36,790 --> 02:18:33,679
aerospace researcher

3909
02:18:38,709 --> 02:18:36,800
who has been background investigated

3910
02:18:41,349 --> 02:18:38,719
and has

3911
02:18:43,110 --> 02:18:41,359
a top-level security clearance with the

3912
02:18:44,549 --> 02:18:43,120
united states government

3913
02:18:47,429 --> 02:18:44,559
we know he works for aerospace

3914
02:18:51,830 --> 02:18:50,230
he has as much as said

3915
02:18:54,870 --> 02:18:51,840
that there

3916
02:18:57,669 --> 02:18:54,880
is a program out there

3917
02:19:00,150 --> 02:18:57,679
multiple programs as a matter of fact

3918
02:19:01,830 --> 02:19:00,160
i think he's only said one i think he

3919
02:19:05,349 --> 02:19:01,840
he i think he's only said crash

3920
02:19:07,270 --> 02:19:05,359
retrieval uap legacy crash retrieval

3921
02:19:09,830 --> 02:19:07,280
program i'm getting those words not

3922
02:19:11,990 --> 02:19:09,840
right i don't think he said multiple

3923
02:19:14,549 --> 02:19:12,000
possible uh possible i'm not remembering

3924
02:19:16,469 --> 02:19:14,559
different compartments of of of one

3925
02:19:18,389 --> 02:19:16,479
program right that's what what i'm

3926
02:19:21,190 --> 02:19:18,399
trying to say but but he has

3927
02:19:22,469 --> 02:19:21,200
he has alluded to this

3928
02:19:25,589 --> 02:19:22,479
okay

3929
02:19:29,429 --> 02:19:28,230
of his credentials

3930
02:19:32,629 --> 02:19:29,439
do that

3931
02:19:35,830 --> 02:19:32,639
why would he tell an untruth

3932
02:19:37,750 --> 02:19:35,840
about something so significant

3933
02:19:39,589 --> 02:19:37,760
why would he do that

3934
02:19:41,589 --> 02:19:39,599
and the only argument i've heard is well

3935
02:19:43,509 --> 02:19:41,599
he's trying to we're trying to fool the

3936
02:19:45,990 --> 02:19:43,519
russians and chinese into thinking we

3937
02:19:47,750 --> 02:19:46,000
have that so they'll spend money trying

3938
02:19:48,389 --> 02:19:47,760
to chase that's the only argument i've

3939
02:19:50,630 --> 02:19:48,399
heard

3940
02:19:53,510 --> 02:19:50,640
do i think eric davis is blind

3941
02:19:55,670 --> 02:19:53,520
i don't okay then if that's the case if

3942
02:19:57,990 --> 02:19:55,680
it's just a cover and

3943
02:20:00,389 --> 02:19:58,000
then how do you explain

3944
02:20:03,670 --> 02:20:00,399
the millions of people around the world

3945
02:20:04,790 --> 02:20:03,680
that tens of thousands of documented

3946
02:20:06,630 --> 02:20:04,800
sightings

3947
02:20:09,110 --> 02:20:06,640
are they all lying

3948
02:20:11,429 --> 02:20:09,120
is every person that has ever submitted

3949
02:20:13,750 --> 02:20:11,439
a sighting report airline pilots

3950
02:20:15,190 --> 02:20:13,760
policemen firemen scientists dentist

3951
02:20:20,150 --> 02:20:15,200
doctors

3952
02:20:21,590 --> 02:20:20,160
babysitters teachers husbands fathers

3953
02:20:23,510 --> 02:20:21,600
shall i go on

3954
02:20:25,270 --> 02:20:23,520
all these people that are behind all

3955
02:20:27,670 --> 02:20:25,280
these reports that have been coming in

3956
02:20:30,790 --> 02:20:27,680
for all these decades some that are in

3957
02:20:35,590 --> 02:20:30,800
the press some that you never hear about

3958
02:20:40,070 --> 02:20:37,910
was all of that was blue book was the

3959
02:20:41,590 --> 02:20:40,080
unexplained cases of blue book

3960
02:20:42,870 --> 02:20:41,600
um

3961
02:20:44,550 --> 02:20:42,880
is that just

3962
02:20:46,469 --> 02:20:44,560
fluff

3963
02:20:48,550 --> 02:20:46,479
and the people were saying oh michael

3964
02:20:50,469 --> 02:20:48,560
that yes ufos are real we don't know

3965
02:20:52,389 --> 02:20:50,479
what they are but if they're coming all

3966
02:20:54,389 --> 02:20:52,399
the way from alpha centauri they're not

3967
02:20:55,910 --> 02:20:54,399
gonna crash that's the other side

3968
02:20:57,670 --> 02:20:55,920
argument again

3969
02:20:59,830 --> 02:20:57,680
well that's to me i put that up there

3970
02:21:01,590 --> 02:20:59,840
with uh you know they're not real

3971
02:21:03,110 --> 02:21:01,600
otherwise there's too many cell phones

3972
02:21:05,190 --> 02:21:03,120
out there we would have a clear how come

3973
02:21:06,070 --> 02:21:05,200
we don't have any clear photographs

3974
02:21:07,670 --> 02:21:06,080
right

3975
02:21:09,910 --> 02:21:07,680
there's a very clear answer to that one

3976
02:21:11,750 --> 02:21:09,920
too and i do think eric davis is telling

3977
02:21:13,910 --> 02:21:11,760
the truth i do think eric davis has done

3978
02:21:15,910 --> 02:21:13,920
decades of research into the crash

3979
02:21:18,150 --> 02:21:15,920
retrieval program and he explained

3980
02:21:20,550 --> 02:21:18,160
exactly what he knows to the members of

3981
02:21:22,309 --> 02:21:20,560
congress in his briefing which chris

3982
02:21:24,389 --> 02:21:22,319
mellon was there for and chris mellon

3983
02:21:26,230 --> 02:21:24,399
said he gave them enough information for

3984
02:21:29,190 --> 02:21:26,240
them to go look for themselves now will

3985
02:21:31,190 --> 02:21:29,200
they do it is another question

3986
02:21:32,870 --> 02:21:31,200
michael if i was on that committee if

3987
02:21:34,950 --> 02:21:32,880
you were on that committee oh you know

3988
02:21:35,910 --> 02:21:34,960
what i remember being being told these

3989
02:21:38,790 --> 02:21:35,920
things

3990
02:21:40,870 --> 02:21:38,800
and you had the power of the purse

3991
02:21:42,389 --> 02:21:40,880
and the power of your committee

3992
02:21:43,910 --> 02:21:42,399
i would think that that would be about

3993
02:21:45,590 --> 02:21:43,920
the most interesting thing somebody

3994
02:21:47,030 --> 02:21:45,600
could ever come to capitol hill and tell

3995
02:21:49,349 --> 02:21:47,040
me yeah

3996
02:21:51,429 --> 02:21:49,359
i would take that i would take the

3997
02:21:53,590 --> 02:21:51,439
defense for me into action i would take

3998
02:21:55,349 --> 02:21:53,600
the defect uh defense secretary and go i

3999
02:21:58,309 --> 02:21:55,359
think this defense secretary should have

4000
02:22:00,150 --> 02:21:58,319
access to every special access program

4001
02:22:01,190 --> 02:22:00,160
right

4002
02:22:02,790 --> 02:22:01,200
i mean they're not going to take the

4003
02:22:05,510 --> 02:22:02,800
president but

4004
02:22:08,469 --> 02:22:05,520
political appointees right so

4005
02:22:10,230 --> 02:22:08,479
the the access is probably

4006
02:22:13,670 --> 02:22:10,240
is it accessible

4007
02:22:16,950 --> 02:22:13,680
right with the hammer yeah probably but

4008
02:22:18,389 --> 02:22:16,960
in general day-to-day operations

4009
02:22:21,110 --> 02:22:18,399
probably not

4010
02:22:23,429 --> 02:22:21,120
if he suddenly had a need to know if it

4011
02:22:24,630 --> 02:22:23,439
was suddenly deemed that he had a need

4012
02:22:26,150 --> 02:22:24,640
to know

4013
02:22:28,070 --> 02:22:26,160
would they brief him

4014
02:22:31,670 --> 02:22:28,080
oh conceivable yeah

4015
02:22:33,830 --> 02:22:31,680
sure sure but day-to-day operations

4016
02:22:36,469 --> 02:22:33,840
why brief these people that are here

4017
02:22:38,710 --> 02:22:36,479
today and could be fired tomorrow

4018
02:22:41,349 --> 02:22:38,720
they could have fired lloyd austin

4019
02:22:43,670 --> 02:22:41,359
after the afghanistan evacuation debacle

4020
02:22:45,990 --> 02:22:43,680
right so you you don't just give the

4021
02:22:47,830 --> 02:22:46,000
keys of the to the kingdom

4022
02:22:49,670 --> 02:22:47,840
to every political appointee the moment

4023
02:22:51,429 --> 02:22:49,680
they walk into the office totally

4024
02:22:53,110 --> 02:22:51,439
understandable i mean i don't like the

4025
02:22:54,950 --> 02:22:53,120
secrecy of a crash retrieval program but

4026
02:22:56,230 --> 02:22:54,960
i understand it from their point of view

4027
02:22:57,510 --> 02:22:56,240
why you would not just give it to

4028
02:23:00,309 --> 02:22:57,520
political appointees who are not going

4029
02:23:02,550 --> 02:23:00,319
to be there maybe uh question for you is

4030
02:23:04,870 --> 02:23:02,560
michael aware of special research on

4031
02:23:06,710 --> 02:23:04,880
possible uap technology at the air force

4032
02:23:10,309 --> 02:23:06,720
research research lab at

4033
02:23:14,870 --> 02:23:12,070
i'm not aware and i would dare say that

4034
02:23:17,429 --> 02:23:14,880
if i was i wouldn't

4035
02:23:19,110 --> 02:23:17,439
certainly be able to say so

4036
02:23:21,349 --> 02:23:19,120
the only thing i've heard is the guy nat

4037
02:23:22,469 --> 02:23:21,359
kobits who said uh ross calhart

4038
02:23:24,550 --> 02:23:22,479
interviewed and

4039
02:23:27,030 --> 02:23:24,560
said he went out to write pat and saw

4040
02:23:28,469 --> 02:23:27,040
material he couldn't explain how it was

4041
02:23:29,910 --> 02:23:28,479
manufactured he thought it was at the

4042
02:23:31,349 --> 02:23:29,920
atomic level

4043
02:23:32,790 --> 02:23:31,359
that's the only thing i've heard as far

4044
02:23:35,429 --> 02:23:32,800
as

4045
02:23:39,510 --> 02:23:35,439
a witness but he's dead now so

4046
02:23:41,990 --> 02:23:39,520
and there's um again there's

4047
02:23:44,550 --> 02:23:42,000
decades of um

4048
02:23:46,870 --> 02:23:44,560
stories reports what have you

4049
02:23:48,070 --> 02:23:46,880
of involvement of wright-patterson air

4050
02:23:50,710 --> 02:23:48,080
force base

4051
02:23:52,389 --> 02:23:50,720
in the foreign technology division which

4052
02:23:55,910 --> 02:23:52,399
really existed

4053
02:23:57,590 --> 02:23:55,920
uh looking at various things but

4054
02:23:58,790 --> 02:23:57,600
do we have proof

4055
02:24:02,389 --> 02:23:58,800
i tell you

4056
02:24:04,389 --> 02:24:02,399
the goes back to that book again

4057
02:24:06,389 --> 02:24:04,399
and i wish i could cite it and i really

4058
02:24:09,830 --> 02:24:06,399
should do a better job of having more of

4059
02:24:14,469 --> 02:24:11,270
ammunition

4060
02:24:16,469 --> 02:24:14,479
the book

4061
02:24:19,750 --> 02:24:16,479
but ufos in government

4062
02:24:21,510 --> 02:24:19,760
a historical perspective

4063
02:24:23,190 --> 02:24:21,520
the book very clearly

4064
02:24:25,429 --> 02:24:23,200
indicates that the u.s government has

4065
02:24:27,750 --> 02:24:25,439
been involved in this

4066
02:24:32,150 --> 02:24:29,990
because it's full of nothing but u.s

4067
02:24:35,270 --> 02:24:32,160
government related communications

4068
02:24:37,190 --> 02:24:35,280
emails memos reports

4069
02:24:38,870 --> 02:24:37,200
by these five or six authors that

4070
02:24:41,910 --> 02:24:38,880
researched all of this over several

4071
02:24:43,110 --> 02:24:41,920
years and wrote that book to me that's i

4072
02:24:44,630 --> 02:24:43,120
think i've mentioned to you before the

4073
02:24:47,270 --> 02:24:44,640
two most compelling books people should

4074
02:24:48,710 --> 02:24:47,280
read is ufos in government a historical

4075
02:24:49,670 --> 02:24:48,720
perspective

4076
02:24:52,870 --> 02:24:49,680
and

4077
02:24:54,389 --> 02:24:52,880
unconventional flying objects

4078
02:24:57,190 --> 02:24:54,399
by paul hill

4079
02:24:59,590 --> 02:24:57,200
a former nasa employee

4080
02:25:03,349 --> 02:24:59,600
who was disallowed for writing about his

4081
02:25:05,990 --> 02:25:03,359
research while he was employed by nasa

4082
02:25:07,670 --> 02:25:06,000
but whose book was published after his

4083
02:25:10,790 --> 02:25:07,680
death

4084
02:25:13,510 --> 02:25:10,800
using his research notes and all the

4085
02:25:15,429 --> 02:25:13,520
data he collected by his daughter

4086
02:25:17,429 --> 02:25:15,439
julie

4087
02:25:19,510 --> 02:25:17,439
that's a fact i wish we had a book

4088
02:25:23,750 --> 02:25:19,520
report on that

4089
02:25:27,510 --> 02:25:25,590
yes he's working on a summary book

4090
02:25:28,950 --> 02:25:27,520
report which i cannot wait because i

4091
02:25:29,830 --> 02:25:28,960
have not read that book

4092
02:25:31,510 --> 02:25:29,840
um

4093
02:25:33,429 --> 02:25:31,520
and that's my fear i'm afraid people

4094
02:25:35,270 --> 02:25:33,439
won't read the book if i if i do this

4095
02:25:36,309 --> 02:25:35,280
but yeah he's gone he's not here anymore

4096
02:25:39,750 --> 02:25:36,319
though so

4097
02:25:41,110 --> 02:25:39,760
it's it's uh it's a it's what 12 13 14

4098
02:25:43,830 --> 02:25:41,120
chapters

4099
02:25:46,150 --> 02:25:43,840
and um just allow me a segue here just a

4100
02:25:47,510 --> 02:25:46,160
sec uh just a brief not segue but just a

4101
02:25:49,110 --> 02:25:47,520
side step

4102
02:25:52,070 --> 02:25:49,120
just give me a second

4103
02:25:54,790 --> 02:25:52,080
i'll just i'll just give a hint because

4104
02:25:56,070 --> 02:25:54,800
if people will just you know like i say

4105
02:25:56,460 --> 02:25:56,080
two books

4106
02:25:57,590 --> 02:25:56,470
um

4107
02:25:59,349 --> 02:25:57,600
[Music]

4108
02:26:01,429 --> 02:25:59,359
ufos in government and you're going to

4109
02:26:05,030 --> 02:26:01,439
find out exactly what the government

4110
02:26:07,510 --> 02:26:05,040
well to the extent that was releasable

4111
02:26:10,230 --> 02:26:07,520
has said to one another

4112
02:26:12,070 --> 02:26:10,240
so we're talking about air force navy

4113
02:26:14,790 --> 02:26:12,080
u.s government civilians of all

4114
02:26:17,349 --> 02:26:14,800
different organizations and ranks

4115
02:26:19,590 --> 02:26:17,359
all these email communications letters

4116
02:26:21,830 --> 02:26:19,600
memos reports

4117
02:26:23,910 --> 02:26:21,840
in that book that are cited has i think

4118
02:26:26,469 --> 02:26:23,920
thousands of citations

4119
02:26:28,150 --> 02:26:26,479
um you'll get a good understanding of of

4120
02:26:31,030 --> 02:26:28,160
what the government knew at least up

4121
02:26:33,590 --> 02:26:31,040
into the modern era and then paul hill's

4122
02:26:36,070 --> 02:26:33,600
book unconventional flying objects

4123
02:26:37,750 --> 02:26:36,080
when he was at nasa he studied

4124
02:26:39,910 --> 02:26:37,760
just listen to these to these chapter

4125
02:26:41,990 --> 02:26:39,920
headings and i'll shut up

4126
02:26:44,790 --> 02:26:42,000
the physical properties and effects

4127
02:26:47,190 --> 02:26:44,800
their performance their illumination

4128
02:26:49,590 --> 02:26:47,200
their heat radiation

4129
02:26:51,429 --> 02:26:49,600
the energetic particle ejection from

4130
02:26:53,510 --> 02:26:51,439
their propulsion

4131
02:26:55,510 --> 02:26:53,520
transmission of forces from their

4132
02:26:58,790 --> 02:26:55,520
propulsion

4133
02:27:01,190 --> 02:26:58,800
evaluating the force field

4134
02:27:05,270 --> 02:27:01,200
the audible detection

4135
02:27:08,469 --> 02:27:05,280
of the saucer hum and the cyclic field

4136
02:27:11,510 --> 02:27:08,479
propulsion oddities

4137
02:27:13,590 --> 02:27:11,520
the flying saucers dynamics silent

4138
02:27:17,270 --> 02:27:13,600
subsonic operations

4139
02:27:18,469 --> 02:27:17,280
silent supersonic operations aerodynamic

4140
02:27:20,070 --> 02:27:18,479
heating

4141
02:27:22,469 --> 02:27:20,080
of ufos

4142
02:27:24,950 --> 02:27:22,479
the high acceleration loading

4143
02:27:27,270 --> 02:27:24,960
on occupants

4144
02:27:29,349 --> 02:27:27,280
ufo artifacts

4145
02:27:31,349 --> 02:27:29,359
humanoid occupants

4146
02:27:32,790 --> 02:27:31,359
time requirements for interstellar

4147
02:27:35,750 --> 02:27:32,800
travel

4148
02:27:37,830 --> 02:27:35,760
and ufo operational capabilities and

4149
02:27:39,110 --> 02:27:37,840
then he has a chapter on summary and

4150
02:27:41,750 --> 02:27:39,120
conclusions

4151
02:27:43,510 --> 02:27:41,760
so you find out that in the 1950s and

4152
02:27:45,270 --> 02:27:43,520
60s and 70s

4153
02:27:47,670 --> 02:27:45,280
how much we actually knew about these

4154
02:27:49,270 --> 02:27:47,680
things

4155
02:27:50,309 --> 02:27:49,280
and then when you combine that with what

4156
02:27:52,230 --> 02:27:50,319
the government in their own

4157
02:27:54,389 --> 02:27:52,240
communications are saying to one another

4158
02:27:56,630 --> 02:27:54,399
in ufos and government a historical

4159
02:27:57,910 --> 02:27:56,640
perspective in that book

4160
02:27:59,910 --> 02:27:57,920
to me

4161
02:28:02,630 --> 02:27:59,920
you're sufficiently armed

4162
02:28:03,910 --> 02:28:02,640
to uh to have at least a to be

4163
02:28:05,429 --> 02:28:03,920
conversant

4164
02:28:07,429 --> 02:28:05,439
in this

4165
02:28:08,150 --> 02:28:07,439
field

4166
02:28:12,550 --> 02:28:08,160
and

4167
02:28:17,510 --> 02:28:12,560
least you know

4168
02:28:20,150 --> 02:28:17,520
where our government stood on this stuff

4169
02:28:24,230 --> 02:28:20,160
that they believed it was real

4170
02:28:25,850 --> 02:28:24,240
that it wasn't visionary or fictitious

4171
02:28:27,510 --> 02:28:25,860
and so on and so forth i mean

4172
02:28:30,309 --> 02:28:27,520
[Music]

4173
02:28:32,070 --> 02:28:30,319
they're taking it completely seriously

4174
02:28:33,990 --> 02:28:32,080
and i i'll i'll link to both of those

4175
02:28:35,429 --> 02:28:34,000
books on twitter and in the

4176
02:28:36,790 --> 02:28:35,439
show notes if i could figure out i think

4177
02:28:38,469 --> 02:28:36,800
show notes are pretty basic i haven't

4178
02:28:40,630 --> 02:28:38,479
done it yet if you guys want to support

4179
02:28:41,990 --> 02:28:40,640
the channel and my work

4180
02:28:45,349 --> 02:28:42,000
you can buy

4181
02:28:47,349 --> 02:28:45,359
through my link the next question which

4182
02:28:49,750 --> 02:28:47,359
i kind of have something related to what

4183
02:28:51,510 --> 02:28:49,760
so the question is

4184
02:28:55,349 --> 02:28:51,520
where can i see it do you think we will

4185
02:28:57,030 --> 02:28:55,359
see any new data about usos from the u.s

4186
02:28:58,630 --> 02:28:57,040
navy let me just quickly say something

4187
02:29:00,309 --> 02:28:58,640
that was in the book in the book

4188
02:29:01,270 --> 02:29:00,319
skinwalkers at the pentagon they said a

4189
02:29:05,830 --> 02:29:01,280
report

4190
02:29:08,309 --> 02:29:05,840
included simulations and analysis of tic

4191
02:29:10,550 --> 02:29:08,319
tac velocities and acceleration as well

4192
02:29:12,710 --> 02:29:10,560
as simulations of a tic tac entering the

4193
02:29:15,030 --> 02:29:12,720
water and simulations of tic-tac

4194
02:29:16,950 --> 02:29:15,040
movement through the water these latter

4195
02:29:19,510 --> 02:29:16,960
simulations could form a baseline for

4196
02:29:22,870 --> 02:29:19,520
future uap task force studies and

4197
02:29:24,230 --> 02:29:22,880
analysis of so-called trans medium uap

4198
02:29:28,150 --> 02:29:24,240
behavior

4199
02:29:29,110 --> 02:29:28,160
filmmaker jeremy corbell and george

4200
02:29:30,950 --> 02:29:29,120
knapp

4201
02:29:35,429 --> 02:29:30,960
so do i think we're going to see it

4202
02:29:39,190 --> 02:29:37,270
i don't know i just know that a lot of

4203
02:29:40,710 --> 02:29:39,200
that stuff was apparently already

4204
02:29:43,110 --> 02:29:40,720
figured out

4205
02:29:46,950 --> 02:29:43,120
uh by people like paul hill at nasa

4206
02:29:48,830 --> 02:29:46,960
langley because he writes about

4207
02:29:51,190 --> 02:29:48,840
what year was the book put

4208
02:29:54,230 --> 02:29:51,200
out i don't remember what year it was

4209
02:29:55,910 --> 02:29:54,240
published maybe 1990 something so keep

4210
02:29:58,870 --> 02:29:55,920
bearing in mind that it was published

4211
02:29:59,910 --> 02:29:58,880
posthumously after after he died

4212
02:30:00,950 --> 02:29:59,920
um

4213
02:30:03,750 --> 02:30:00,960
which was

4214
02:30:06,230 --> 02:30:03,760
arranged pre-arranged right he was

4215
02:30:08,550 --> 02:30:06,240
disallowed from writing that book

4216
02:30:09,990 --> 02:30:08,560
while he was employed by nasa by his

4217
02:30:12,710 --> 02:30:10,000
management

4218
02:30:17,030 --> 02:30:12,720
and then his um

4219
02:30:23,349 --> 02:30:19,670
apparently arranged with him to

4220
02:30:28,070 --> 02:30:26,630
and and publish it after he died

4221
02:30:30,070 --> 02:30:28,080
let me see if i can find when it was

4222
02:30:31,670 --> 02:30:30,080
published

4223
02:30:33,910 --> 02:30:31,680
while you're looking for that question

4224
02:30:35,429 --> 02:30:33,920
from shelley montgomery

4225
02:30:37,110 --> 02:30:35,439
the question about overstepping our

4226
02:30:38,469 --> 02:30:37,120
boundaries in space has something to do

4227
02:30:42,309 --> 02:30:38,479
with mining

4228
02:30:46,870 --> 02:30:42,319
what does mr vibe think of this

4229
02:30:48,550 --> 02:30:46,880
i'm not exactly sure what that is asking

4230
02:30:50,790 --> 02:30:48,560
they don't want us to go out into space

4231
02:30:53,830 --> 02:30:50,800
and mine what they're already mining you

4232
02:30:54,870 --> 02:30:53,840
think yeah i i have no idea

4233
02:30:58,309 --> 02:30:54,880
i don't know

4234
02:31:01,190 --> 02:30:59,830
i wouldn't know where to start on that

4235
02:31:05,429 --> 02:31:01,200
one

4236
02:31:07,110 --> 02:31:05,439
why now like coming forward now to add

4237
02:31:08,230 --> 02:31:07,120
to this record and even correct some of

4238
02:31:10,230 --> 02:31:08,240
the record

4239
02:31:12,150 --> 02:31:10,240
i think lecaski wanted to write a book a

4240
02:31:14,070 --> 02:31:12,160
few years ago uh if you read the book he

4241
02:31:15,030 --> 02:31:14,080
says that

4242
02:31:17,429 --> 02:31:15,040
um

4243
02:31:19,750 --> 02:31:17,439
i am not the remote viewing king but i

4244
02:31:21,030 --> 02:31:19,760
did study it back in 96 and took a class

4245
02:31:22,790 --> 02:31:21,040
with linda cannon who's one of the

4246
02:31:26,070 --> 02:31:22,800
original remote viewers in the military

4247
02:31:28,550 --> 02:31:26,080
program in the army program

4248
02:31:30,389 --> 02:31:28,560
who will likely be the first official to

4249
02:31:32,870 --> 02:31:30,399
publicly acknowledge the paranormal side

4250
02:31:35,270 --> 02:31:32,880
effects that go along with the uap

4251
02:31:38,630 --> 02:31:35,280
encounters

4252
02:31:42,630 --> 02:31:39,910
i don't know

4253
02:31:43,990 --> 02:31:42,640
um cdc director

4254
02:31:45,750 --> 02:31:44,000
i don't know

4255
02:31:46,630 --> 02:31:45,760
we we've discovered

4256
02:31:49,590 --> 02:31:46,640
that

4257
02:31:54,230 --> 02:31:49,600
wearing masks is not helpful when

4258
02:31:57,270 --> 02:31:55,590
how would you couch the problem of

4259
02:31:58,469 --> 02:31:57,280
paranormal side effects with the public

4260
02:31:59,830 --> 02:31:58,479
at large

4261
02:32:01,110 --> 02:31:59,840
that's another one we need we need

4262
02:32:02,790 --> 02:32:01,120
experts on that i don't know how to

4263
02:32:05,030 --> 02:32:02,800
handle somebody i mean i've spoken about

4264
02:32:06,389 --> 02:32:05,040
it with people in my family who don't

4265
02:32:08,230 --> 02:32:06,399
normally talk about it and they were

4266
02:32:11,750 --> 02:32:08,240
okay listening to me they didn't freak

4267
02:32:13,670 --> 02:32:11,760
out maybe because they don't believe it

4268
02:32:14,790 --> 02:32:13,680
i spoke with a very close family member

4269
02:32:16,870 --> 02:32:14,800
who had

4270
02:32:19,510 --> 02:32:16,880
an experience where

4271
02:32:22,950 --> 02:32:19,520
there was some sort of what she felt was

4272
02:32:25,190 --> 02:32:22,960
a being non-physical being

4273
02:32:27,510 --> 02:32:25,200
and she was in bed and it's uh it's not

4274
02:32:29,270 --> 02:32:27,520
a good story it's not a horrible story

4275
02:32:30,710 --> 02:32:29,280
but it's not a good story and i'll share

4276
02:32:32,070 --> 02:32:30,720
it she said she would share it with me

4277
02:32:33,510 --> 02:32:32,080
so i could share it

4278
02:32:34,790 --> 02:32:33,520
um there are other stories george

4279
02:32:36,790 --> 02:32:34,800
knapp's wife

4280
02:32:38,710 --> 02:32:36,800
robert bigelow's deceased wife day when

4281
02:32:40,150 --> 02:32:38,720
they when she was alive they both

4282
02:32:41,750 --> 02:32:40,160
experienced something coming into the

4283
02:32:44,550 --> 02:32:41,760
room while they were in bed

4284
02:32:45,590 --> 02:32:44,560
and pressing close against them my sis

4285
02:32:48,630 --> 02:32:45,600
my

4286
02:32:50,710 --> 02:32:48,640
well

4287
02:32:55,030 --> 02:32:50,720
speaking of family members i mean

4288
02:32:57,349 --> 02:32:55,040
i know and if and i have friends

4289
02:32:58,790 --> 02:32:57,359
that can say the same thing so i guess i

4290
02:33:00,150 --> 02:32:58,800
would ask the question how many of us

4291
02:33:03,270 --> 02:33:00,160
know people

4292
02:33:06,389 --> 02:33:03,280
either in your own immediate families or

4293
02:33:09,110 --> 02:33:06,399
neighbors or extended families that when

4294
02:33:10,950 --> 02:33:09,120
you're that over the years

4295
02:33:11,990 --> 02:33:10,960
either either currently or over the

4296
02:33:14,309 --> 02:33:12,000
years

4297
02:33:16,469 --> 02:33:14,319
tell these weird stories

4298
02:33:17,670 --> 02:33:16,479
about things that happen that are sort

4299
02:33:20,630 --> 02:33:17,680
of

4300
02:33:22,870 --> 02:33:20,640
strange and otherworldly that you know

4301
02:33:25,429 --> 02:33:22,880
the oddest thing like i tell you after

4302
02:33:29,990 --> 02:33:25,439
my father-in-law passed away

4303
02:33:34,710 --> 02:33:32,950
a couple of really weird things happened

4304
02:33:35,750 --> 02:33:34,720
at my house

4305
02:33:37,830 --> 02:33:35,760
that

4306
02:33:39,429 --> 02:33:37,840
i can't explain

4307
02:33:41,110 --> 02:33:39,439
um

4308
02:33:43,190 --> 02:33:41,120
those are the first

4309
02:33:45,670 --> 02:33:43,200
outside of my sighting in 1992 in the

4310
02:33:48,070 --> 02:33:45,680
gulf of the black triangle

4311
02:33:51,030 --> 02:33:48,080
those are the only two things i can ever

4312
02:33:53,590 --> 02:33:51,040
remember in my lifetime that occurred

4313
02:33:54,550 --> 02:33:53,600
that um

4314
02:33:56,469 --> 02:33:54,560
i just

4315
02:33:57,910 --> 02:33:56,479
was sort of dumbfounded

4316
02:33:59,910 --> 02:33:57,920
and almost

4317
02:34:01,830 --> 02:33:59,920
went back and woke up my wife and

4318
02:34:04,230 --> 02:34:01,840
because i thought surely she would you

4319
02:34:05,910 --> 02:34:04,240
know she

4320
02:34:07,030 --> 02:34:05,920
would have wanted to know

4321
02:34:08,550 --> 02:34:07,040
um

4322
02:34:11,349 --> 02:34:08,560
and then i later mentioned it to her it

4323
02:34:13,990 --> 02:34:11,359
was it was it was a very distinct

4324
02:34:15,510 --> 02:34:14,000
hard three knocks

4325
02:34:17,190 --> 02:34:15,520
on something

4326
02:34:19,750 --> 02:34:17,200
in the house

4327
02:34:23,030 --> 02:34:19,760
it wasn't the door

4328
02:34:25,429 --> 02:34:24,469
like two days

4329
02:34:28,950 --> 02:34:25,439
i think

4330
02:34:32,309 --> 02:34:30,790
it was just really weird uh and then

4331
02:34:34,389 --> 02:34:32,319
there was another two days

4332
02:34:36,389 --> 02:34:34,399
you broke up so it was two days two days

4333
02:34:37,750 --> 02:34:36,399
after two days after my father-in-law

4334
02:34:38,630 --> 02:34:37,760
died

4335
02:34:40,309 --> 02:34:38,640
um

4336
02:34:42,469 --> 02:34:40,319
i mean i'm not gonna set the scene but i

4337
02:34:45,349 --> 02:34:42,479
mean i mean it was

4338
02:34:47,670 --> 02:34:45,359
really quiet he had just died two days

4339
02:34:48,710 --> 02:34:47,680
we just buried him two days before

4340
02:34:50,790 --> 02:34:48,720
and uh

4341
02:34:54,630 --> 02:34:50,800
there were two occasions

4342
02:34:57,670 --> 02:34:54,640
of three distinct knocks

4343
02:34:59,510 --> 02:34:57,680
as as distinct as me

4344
02:35:01,750 --> 02:34:59,520
knocking on something

4345
02:35:04,790 --> 02:35:01,760
solid like wood

4346
02:35:07,270 --> 02:35:04,800
something sturdy a table

4347
02:35:10,070 --> 02:35:07,280
a door except it wasn't the door because

4348
02:35:12,630 --> 02:35:10,080
i was looking i i looked up at the door

4349
02:35:14,950 --> 02:35:12,640
after about the first knock the front

4350
02:35:16,630 --> 02:35:14,960
door and it wasn't coming from the door

4351
02:35:17,510 --> 02:35:16,640
it was coming from somewhere in the

4352
02:35:19,349 --> 02:35:17,520
house

4353
02:35:21,110 --> 02:35:19,359
my point is is that

4354
02:35:22,710 --> 02:35:21,120
i'm just one person that's the only

4355
02:35:24,070 --> 02:35:22,720
thing in my life really that's ever

4356
02:35:25,670 --> 02:35:24,080
happened that's kind of strange but i

4357
02:35:28,309 --> 02:35:25,680
know other people

4358
02:35:30,150 --> 02:35:28,319
that will tell you stories that like you

4359
02:35:32,309 --> 02:35:30,160
won't my grandmother told me that when

4360
02:35:34,790 --> 02:35:32,319
she was a little girl blah blah blah or

4361
02:35:36,550 --> 02:35:34,800
aunt susie told me this they still don't

4362
02:35:39,750 --> 02:35:36,560
know what that you know these weird

4363
02:35:43,110 --> 02:35:39,760
things that just make absolutely no sign

4364
02:35:45,750 --> 02:35:43,120
on the surface make no scientific sense

4365
02:35:48,150 --> 02:35:45,760
uh don't don't have any logic to them or

4366
02:35:49,830 --> 02:35:48,160
totally unexplainable

4367
02:35:52,870 --> 02:35:49,840
what is all of that about you know is

4368
02:35:54,550 --> 02:35:52,880
that right is that part of

4369
02:35:56,070 --> 02:35:54,560
something else that we're sort of

4370
02:35:59,429 --> 02:35:56,080
scratching on the surface of here with

4371
02:36:01,349 --> 02:35:59,439
this conversation yeah i i had a true i

4372
02:36:03,110 --> 02:36:01,359
i've told the story before i was

4373
02:36:04,550 --> 02:36:03,120
volunteering at a veterans hospital with

4374
02:36:07,190 --> 02:36:04,560
people who are in palliative care so

4375
02:36:09,349 --> 02:36:07,200
they're gonna die um and the day i went

4376
02:36:11,190 --> 02:36:09,359
in one of the patients i was spending

4377
02:36:13,030 --> 02:36:11,200
time with for months

4378
02:36:14,950 --> 02:36:13,040
there was no sign that he was sicker

4379
02:36:16,950 --> 02:36:14,960
than normal he was the same every day

4380
02:36:18,469 --> 02:36:16,960
maybe some days worse than others but

4381
02:36:20,950 --> 02:36:18,479
the night before i have this dream that

4382
02:36:22,710 --> 02:36:20,960
he died i go in before i get in the

4383
02:36:24,870 --> 02:36:22,720
nurse stops me she's like i need to talk

4384
02:36:26,950 --> 02:36:24,880
with you and i'm like frank died right

4385
02:36:28,790 --> 02:36:26,960
she's like how did you know so i'm like

4386
02:36:30,790 --> 02:36:28,800
i had a dream last night so it's like

4387
02:36:32,469 --> 02:36:30,800
and my friend is like nicole who was in

4388
02:36:34,870 --> 02:36:32,479
there earlier she's like that's the

4389
02:36:36,710 --> 02:36:34,880
phenomenon i'm like maybe i don't know i

4390
02:36:38,469 --> 02:36:36,720
don't know you're an experiencer some

4391
02:36:41,270 --> 02:36:38,479
people consider that an experience or so

4392
02:36:42,469 --> 02:36:41,280
i don't know um but there's a related

4393
02:36:44,950 --> 02:36:42,479
question

4394
02:36:47,030 --> 02:36:44,960
from shelley montgomery she goes

4395
02:36:48,550 --> 02:36:47,040
i have one last question please ask mr

4396
02:36:49,910 --> 02:36:48,560
asked mr vi since you're citing

4397
02:36:51,910 --> 02:36:49,920
especially in the last three years have

4398
02:36:55,030 --> 02:36:51,920
you had any strange feelings that at

4399
02:36:55,990 --> 02:36:55,040
certain times to go outside and look up

4400
02:36:57,670 --> 02:36:56,000
me

4401
02:36:59,830 --> 02:36:57,680
it wasn't a strange feeling i was on my

4402
02:37:02,309 --> 02:36:59,840
couch right here and the dog was

4403
02:37:04,550 --> 02:37:02,319
growling it was i think it was dusk it

4404
02:37:06,469 --> 02:37:04,560
was just before it got dark out so i go

4405
02:37:07,510 --> 02:37:06,479
over to the screen door it's like last

4406
02:37:10,070 --> 02:37:07,520
year

4407
02:37:12,070 --> 02:37:10,080
and this i'd say

4408
02:37:13,590 --> 02:37:12,080
larger than a softball

4409
02:37:15,910 --> 02:37:13,600
dull white

4410
02:37:16,710 --> 02:37:15,920
i guess orb it went so fast it was on

4411
02:37:19,110 --> 02:37:16,720
the ground

4412
02:37:20,469 --> 02:37:19,120
whoop very fast it was not a rabbit or

4413
02:37:22,150 --> 02:37:20,479
anything like that

4414
02:37:24,070 --> 02:37:22,160
so i didn't get a sense of looking i

4415
02:37:25,990 --> 02:37:24,080
just had the dog give me the warning and

4416
02:37:27,590 --> 02:37:26,000
i went and looked so that was mine

4417
02:37:29,590 --> 02:37:27,600
other than that

4418
02:37:33,030 --> 02:37:29,600
nothing really that jumps out at me

4419
02:37:36,550 --> 02:37:33,910
so

4420
02:37:38,389 --> 02:37:36,560
it's kind of interesting question um

4421
02:37:41,510 --> 02:37:38,399
two years ago

4422
02:37:45,510 --> 02:37:41,520
so i said i have i have a deck out back

4423
02:37:48,389 --> 02:37:45,520
and uh i spent a lot of time on the deck

4424
02:37:49,670 --> 02:37:48,399
during the days in okay weather i work

4425
02:37:51,670 --> 02:37:49,680
from home

4426
02:37:53,830 --> 02:37:51,680
i work out there

4427
02:37:57,349 --> 02:37:53,840
with my laptop

4428
02:37:59,190 --> 02:37:57,359
at night there's a tv out there i watch

4429
02:38:01,110 --> 02:37:59,200
summertime i watch baseball games in the

4430
02:38:03,510 --> 02:38:01,120
fall i watch football games i spend a

4431
02:38:04,950 --> 02:38:03,520
lot of time on my deck two years ago i

4432
02:38:07,190 --> 02:38:04,960
was on my deck

4433
02:38:07,990 --> 02:38:07,200
and i'm an only child

4434
02:38:10,469 --> 02:38:08,000
and

4435
02:38:11,429 --> 02:38:10,479
several times a week i talked to my to

4436
02:38:13,429 --> 02:38:11,439
my dad

4437
02:38:14,790 --> 02:38:13,439
on the phone

4438
02:38:15,750 --> 02:38:14,800
it's just the thing

4439
02:38:17,349 --> 02:38:15,760
uh

4440
02:38:18,710 --> 02:38:17,359
it's sort of like you know we're just

4441
02:38:20,950 --> 02:38:18,720
really close friends

4442
02:38:22,630 --> 02:38:20,960
as well as being father-son

4443
02:38:24,790 --> 02:38:22,640
i'm talking to my dad

4444
02:38:25,750 --> 02:38:24,800
and i look up and in the southeastern

4445
02:38:27,110 --> 02:38:25,760
sky

4446
02:38:28,950 --> 02:38:27,120
i see this

4447
02:38:30,630 --> 02:38:28,960
flashing light at first

4448
02:38:31,990 --> 02:38:30,640
for about the first five minutes i'd see

4449
02:38:33,429 --> 02:38:32,000
the flash

4450
02:38:35,670 --> 02:38:33,439
and and i

4451
02:38:37,190 --> 02:38:35,680
keep looking for it and i'd see it again

4452
02:38:38,790 --> 02:38:37,200
and i was trying to center on it i

4453
02:38:39,830 --> 02:38:38,800
couldn't figure out exactly where i was

4454
02:38:42,230 --> 02:38:39,840
seeing it

4455
02:38:44,389 --> 02:38:42,240
so cutting to the chase this was a

4456
02:38:46,550 --> 02:38:44,399
strobing light

4457
02:38:47,590 --> 02:38:46,560
that flashed

4458
02:38:49,590 --> 02:38:47,600
for

4459
02:38:52,469 --> 02:38:49,600
45 minutes

4460
02:38:54,309 --> 02:38:52,479
every 9.2 seconds

4461
02:38:56,870 --> 02:38:54,319
in the same spot

4462
02:38:59,990 --> 02:38:56,880
i came in i have a really nice telescope

4463
02:39:01,510 --> 02:39:00,000
my family got me 10 years ago for

4464
02:39:03,830 --> 02:39:01,520
christmas

4465
02:39:06,230 --> 02:39:03,840
i got the telescope out

4466
02:39:10,469 --> 02:39:06,240
i turned the laser on

4467
02:39:12,790 --> 02:39:10,479
i sighted this object i kept timing it i

4468
02:39:14,790 --> 02:39:12,800
timed it ten times took the average and

4469
02:39:17,030 --> 02:39:14,800
it was like every nine point

4470
02:39:19,190 --> 02:39:17,040
nine point two seconds

4471
02:39:22,389 --> 02:39:19,200
it would flash

4472
02:39:28,230 --> 02:39:22,399
and it would um as as bright as a strobe

4473
02:39:33,990 --> 02:39:30,950
it was white and it would flash on

4474
02:39:36,630 --> 02:39:34,000
quickly and then slowly fade out

4475
02:39:39,830 --> 02:39:36,640
9.2 seconds later the same thing and

4476
02:39:41,910 --> 02:39:39,840
this went on for 45 minutes

4477
02:39:45,510 --> 02:39:41,920
and before you say it was a helicopter

4478
02:39:48,710 --> 02:39:45,520
or a balloon or an aircraft

4479
02:39:51,030 --> 02:39:48,720
if i take this telescope out and i sight

4480
02:39:54,710 --> 02:39:51,040
the moon

4481
02:39:57,110 --> 02:39:54,720
a jupiter saturn any any any planet

4482
02:39:59,910 --> 02:39:57,120
whatever any star

4483
02:40:01,590 --> 02:39:59,920
it's not motorized i have to physically

4484
02:40:04,070 --> 02:40:01,600
after a few minutes

4485
02:40:05,510 --> 02:40:04,080
i have to take it with my hands and

4486
02:40:08,389 --> 02:40:05,520
adjust it

4487
02:40:10,230 --> 02:40:08,399
okay or that whatever's in the view

4488
02:40:12,309 --> 02:40:10,240
is going to move out of the view because

4489
02:40:14,389 --> 02:40:12,319
of the rotation of the earth okay i

4490
02:40:17,030 --> 02:40:14,399
don't have a tracker on it so it's not

4491
02:40:18,710 --> 02:40:17,040
an electronic tracking telescope

4492
02:40:20,630 --> 02:40:18,720
this

4493
02:40:23,670 --> 02:40:20,640
light

4494
02:40:25,670 --> 02:40:23,680
i never moved the telescope

4495
02:40:27,590 --> 02:40:25,680
for 45 minutes

4496
02:40:29,990 --> 02:40:27,600
it stayed centered

4497
02:40:32,630 --> 02:40:30,000
i couldn't tell what it was it's not a

4498
02:40:34,469 --> 02:40:32,640
satellite if it was a geostationary if

4499
02:40:37,030 --> 02:40:34,479
it's a satellite it's got to be moving

4500
02:40:38,389 --> 02:40:37,040
at about 18 000 miles per hour

4501
02:40:40,870 --> 02:40:38,399
and if you've ever looked up and seen a

4502
02:40:42,550 --> 02:40:40,880
satellite or the iss you know it's going

4503
02:40:45,030 --> 02:40:42,560
over a pretty good clip

4504
02:40:46,790 --> 02:40:45,040
this thing never moved i never adjusted

4505
02:40:49,590 --> 02:40:46,800
the telescope

4506
02:40:52,070 --> 02:40:49,600
i have no idea what it was i've googled

4507
02:40:53,110 --> 02:40:52,080
it i've looked on reddit i've asked

4508
02:40:56,150 --> 02:40:53,120
people

4509
02:40:58,550 --> 02:40:56,160
i have an aerospace background

4510
02:41:00,630 --> 02:40:58,560
no idea

4511
02:41:02,630 --> 02:41:00,640
it wasn't a satellite was a helicopter

4512
02:41:03,910 --> 02:41:02,640
it wasn't an airplane wasn't a balloon

4513
02:41:05,190 --> 02:41:03,920
it was a balloon it would have drifted

4514
02:41:07,830 --> 02:41:05,200
away

4515
02:41:10,950 --> 02:41:07,840
with the prevailing winds aloft

4516
02:41:12,630 --> 02:41:10,960
whatever it was was uh if it had a motor

4517
02:41:14,630 --> 02:41:12,640
it was high enough that

4518
02:41:16,469 --> 02:41:14,640
you couldn't hear it

4519
02:41:18,389 --> 02:41:16,479
um

4520
02:41:20,870 --> 02:41:18,399
and it was able to stay

4521
02:41:24,150 --> 02:41:20,880
precisely pinpointed

4522
02:41:26,309 --> 02:41:24,160
for at least 45 minutes

4523
02:41:27,910 --> 02:41:26,319
and i go out there and look up for that

4524
02:41:31,030 --> 02:41:27,920
a lot trying to find it again i don't

4525
02:41:32,630 --> 02:41:31,040
know what it was

4526
02:41:33,990 --> 02:41:32,640
next question thank you for sharing that

4527
02:41:35,910 --> 02:41:34,000
michael um

4528
02:41:38,070 --> 02:41:35,920
from kelly

4529
02:41:40,790 --> 02:41:38,080
why are we scared to talk about the woo

4530
02:41:43,110 --> 02:41:40,800
part of the phenomenon um i think for me

4531
02:41:44,870 --> 02:41:43,120
i'm obviously not um

4532
02:41:46,870 --> 02:41:44,880
but i think some people think it's gonna

4533
02:41:49,830 --> 02:41:46,880
chase away newbies or

4534
02:41:51,429 --> 02:41:49,840
or congressional members or whatever um

4535
02:41:52,950 --> 02:41:51,439
i mean one of the most disappointing

4536
02:41:54,230 --> 02:41:52,960
things i've seen in the past few weeks

4537
02:41:56,389 --> 02:41:54,240
as i watched an interview with ross

4538
02:41:58,389 --> 02:41:56,399
coltart on the theory of everything and

4539
02:42:00,150 --> 02:41:58,399
ross it's a great interview

4540
02:42:02,469 --> 02:42:00,160
uh both sides

4541
02:42:04,150 --> 02:42:02,479
and ross said that he's hesitant now to

4542
02:42:05,750 --> 02:42:04,160
say certain things on social media

4543
02:42:07,590 --> 02:42:05,760
because people are coming at him hard

4544
02:42:09,750 --> 02:42:07,600
and it's like are you kidding me people

4545
02:42:11,510 --> 02:42:09,760
on social media are coming at him hard

4546
02:42:13,269 --> 02:42:11,520
because he's saying what people are

4547
02:42:14,870 --> 02:42:13,279
telling him because ross is like i'm not

4548
02:42:17,750 --> 02:42:14,880
saying i believe this i'm telling you

4549
02:42:19,269 --> 02:42:17,760
what my sources say and now he's like

4550
02:42:21,510 --> 02:42:19,279
maybe i shouldn't even say that i'm like

4551
02:42:23,349 --> 02:42:21,520
no keep saying it we know it's not a

4552
02:42:24,870 --> 02:42:23,359
it's not a truth it's not a you know

4553
02:42:26,550 --> 02:42:24,880
it's not a given you're telling us what

4554
02:42:28,389 --> 02:42:26,560
you were told uh that's really

4555
02:42:31,110 --> 02:42:28,399
disappointing as far as the woo i got

4556
02:42:33,110 --> 02:42:31,120
into the woo back in 96 my first

4557
02:42:34,710 --> 02:42:33,120
you know when i first got into so it was

4558
02:42:36,550 --> 02:42:34,720
extreme woo

4559
02:42:37,429 --> 02:42:36,560
and then i backed off on it

4560
02:42:38,790 --> 02:42:37,439
um

4561
02:42:40,469 --> 02:42:38,800
and now i'm starting to go more in that

4562
02:42:42,950 --> 02:42:40,479
direction i'm still careful but as far

4563
02:42:44,630 --> 02:42:42,960
as talking about i don't i don't care uh

4564
02:42:45,670 --> 02:42:44,640
my my first wife

4565
02:42:49,990 --> 02:42:45,680
she

4566
02:42:52,070 --> 02:42:50,000
only tell me real quick we had one

4567
02:42:53,670 --> 02:42:52,080
experience which

4568
02:42:55,910 --> 02:42:53,680
you know we were in some we went to some

4569
02:42:58,710 --> 02:42:55,920
lecture in somebody's house and she says

4570
02:43:01,429 --> 02:42:58,720
she pulls me aside and she goes

4571
02:43:03,110 --> 02:43:01,439
i i think this lady has a as a spirit

4572
02:43:06,070 --> 02:43:03,120
guide and her spirit guide is a native

4573
02:43:07,670 --> 02:43:06,080
american and he's like ridiculously tall

4574
02:43:09,349 --> 02:43:07,680
and she's whispering this to me she's

4575
02:43:11,910 --> 02:43:09,359
like she's not going to tell anybody

4576
02:43:13,670 --> 02:43:11,920
else even in even a friendly environment

4577
02:43:15,349 --> 02:43:13,680
like that it was something metaphysical

4578
02:43:17,750 --> 02:43:15,359
she goes the thing comes up to the

4579
02:43:19,429 --> 02:43:17,760
ceiling it's that tall

4580
02:43:21,349 --> 02:43:19,439
so five minutes later the owner of the

4581
02:43:23,510 --> 02:43:21,359
house is talking to us she had not

4582
02:43:24,870 --> 02:43:23,520
spoken to the owner of the house and

4583
02:43:27,030 --> 02:43:24,880
the owner of the house says yeah my

4584
02:43:29,349 --> 02:43:27,040
guide's here uh one of them is a really

4585
02:43:30,870 --> 02:43:29,359
tall native american so it's like

4586
02:43:33,990 --> 02:43:30,880
that's kind of feedback that doesn't

4587
02:43:36,790 --> 02:43:34,000
prove anything um but would we tell that

4588
02:43:38,710 --> 02:43:36,800
story any of her stories outside of that

4589
02:43:40,389 --> 02:43:38,720
outside of that situation even even in a

4590
02:43:42,630 --> 02:43:40,399
situation that was metaphysical in

4591
02:43:45,349 --> 02:43:42,640
nature it was she was hesitant to talk

4592
02:43:47,269 --> 02:43:45,359
about it um

4593
02:43:48,790 --> 02:43:47,279
my one of my favorite stories it's even

4594
02:43:51,429 --> 02:43:48,800
another one that's believable we're in a

4595
02:43:53,670 --> 02:43:51,439
church with her we're sitting next to

4596
02:43:55,190 --> 02:43:53,680
her uh she would see things her entire

4597
02:43:57,190 --> 02:43:55,200
life she's the one that saw the man in

4598
02:43:58,710 --> 02:43:57,200
black at her foot of her bed when she

4599
02:44:00,710 --> 02:43:58,720
was a child every day when she was

4600
02:44:01,830 --> 02:44:00,720
younger i look over at her and we're in

4601
02:44:04,150 --> 02:44:01,840
this church

4602
02:44:06,389 --> 02:44:04,160
um she starts crying she has this fear

4603
02:44:07,110 --> 02:44:06,399
look on her face and she starts crying

4604
02:44:08,389 --> 02:44:07,120
and

4605
02:44:10,070 --> 02:44:08,399
i don't know what's wrong with her but

4606
02:44:12,230 --> 02:44:10,080
after everything was over i said what

4607
02:44:13,349 --> 02:44:12,240
what happened she's like

4608
02:44:15,190 --> 02:44:13,359
she goes

4609
02:44:16,710 --> 02:44:15,200
when the preachers the preacher and this

4610
02:44:18,630 --> 02:44:16,720
was not a church we had gone to ever

4611
02:44:21,590 --> 02:44:18,640
before neither one of us were big

4612
02:44:23,990 --> 02:44:21,600
churchgoers um

4613
02:44:26,630 --> 02:44:24,000
and she goes the minister started giving

4614
02:44:28,870 --> 02:44:26,640
this speech about pushing for money the

4615
02:44:30,790 --> 02:44:28,880
weekly tithing and he was getting very

4616
02:44:34,469 --> 02:44:30,800
animated and all sudden she saw this

4617
02:44:36,150 --> 02:44:34,479
really nasty looking being on the altar

4618
02:44:37,670 --> 02:44:36,160
telepathically communicating with her

4619
02:44:39,269 --> 02:44:37,680
saying i know you can see me and there's

4620
02:44:40,870 --> 02:44:39,279
absolutely nothing you could do about it

4621
02:44:42,469 --> 02:44:40,880
and it started guiding it started

4622
02:44:45,349 --> 02:44:42,479
gliding towards her

4623
02:44:47,830 --> 02:44:45,359
and that's when she started crying um

4624
02:44:49,590 --> 02:44:47,840
can't prove it it's total woo

4625
02:44:51,269 --> 02:44:49,600
i have no problem sharing it she would

4626
02:44:53,269 --> 02:44:51,279
never share it um

4627
02:44:55,349 --> 02:44:53,279
she might share it now but back then

4628
02:44:57,349 --> 02:44:55,359
she worked for as a legislative aide to

4629
02:44:58,830 --> 02:44:57,359
a city council person so

4630
02:45:01,030 --> 02:44:58,840
her credibility was

4631
02:45:04,550 --> 02:45:01,040
important um what do you think about

4632
02:45:07,590 --> 02:45:04,560
sharing will why are people hesitant

4633
02:45:09,349 --> 02:45:07,600
well i can only speak for myself uh

4634
02:45:11,030 --> 02:45:09,359
i'm pretty hesitant about it because i

4635
02:45:11,990 --> 02:45:11,040
don't have anything

4636
02:45:14,309 --> 02:45:12,000
other than

4637
02:45:17,190 --> 02:45:14,319
volumes of

4638
02:45:19,349 --> 02:45:17,200
documentation reams of

4639
02:45:21,110 --> 02:45:19,359
claims and reports that we can all go

4640
02:45:23,910 --> 02:45:21,120
and access

4641
02:45:25,429 --> 02:45:23,920
that just uh i think to look at that

4642
02:45:26,830 --> 02:45:25,439
as you know i've said it many times i

4643
02:45:30,870 --> 02:45:26,840
look at the total

4644
02:45:33,910 --> 02:45:30,880
weight of the available information

4645
02:45:36,630 --> 02:45:33,920
and there's just so much

4646
02:45:41,510 --> 02:45:36,640
information out there that is all so

4647
02:45:43,349 --> 02:45:41,520
similar in many respects that points to

4648
02:45:44,950 --> 02:45:43,359
whether it's nuts and bolts or some of

4649
02:45:46,469 --> 02:45:44,960
the more paranormal

4650
02:45:48,710 --> 02:45:46,479
stuff that's going

4651
02:45:53,750 --> 02:45:48,720
supposedly going on

4652
02:45:58,389 --> 02:45:55,429
everything that

4653
02:46:01,830 --> 02:45:58,399
i'm so backgrounded in

4654
02:46:05,990 --> 02:46:03,110
scientific

4655
02:46:09,670 --> 02:46:06,000
and basically data analysis

4656
02:46:10,710 --> 02:46:09,680
that is used to inform a decision

4657
02:46:12,710 --> 02:46:10,720
to take

4658
02:46:15,269 --> 02:46:12,720
whatever course of action

4659
02:46:17,030 --> 02:46:15,279
so you have to have this trail

4660
02:46:18,230 --> 02:46:17,040
in in the work that i've done and

4661
02:46:20,790 --> 02:46:18,240
currently do

4662
02:46:22,309 --> 02:46:20,800
that leads to your next action or your

4663
02:46:25,110 --> 02:46:22,319
next decision and so you have to have

4664
02:46:28,550 --> 02:46:25,120
information to back it up and i

4665
02:46:29,990 --> 02:46:28,560
don't feel on firm ground

4666
02:46:31,990 --> 02:46:30,000
when i'm talking about this kind of

4667
02:46:34,150 --> 02:46:32,000
stuff because um

4668
02:46:37,349 --> 02:46:34,160
hey i'm it's not my

4669
02:46:39,670 --> 02:46:37,359
area of expertise i don't spend

4670
02:46:41,429 --> 02:46:39,680
as much time looking into it am i

4671
02:46:44,950 --> 02:46:41,439
fascinated by it yeah

4672
02:46:47,110 --> 02:46:44,960
but it's still um

4673
02:46:49,830 --> 02:46:47,120
is it i don't know that i look at it as

4674
02:46:51,910 --> 02:46:49,840
a risk it's just that

4675
02:46:53,910 --> 02:46:51,920
i don't have as much to substantiate

4676
02:46:54,950 --> 02:46:53,920
whatever i might say

4677
02:46:56,870 --> 02:46:54,960
um

4678
02:46:59,269 --> 02:46:56,880
and i'm not comfortable i'm not used to

4679
02:47:01,190 --> 02:46:59,279
that it's i'm kind of out of my element

4680
02:47:03,750 --> 02:47:01,200
it makes me uncomfortable

4681
02:47:04,790 --> 02:47:03,760
do i am i open-minded enough to accept

4682
02:47:08,309 --> 02:47:04,800
that it's

4683
02:47:10,710 --> 02:47:08,319
going on or possibly going on sure

4684
02:47:12,630 --> 02:47:10,720
until you know show me then show me

4685
02:47:14,469 --> 02:47:12,640
proof that it is or show me proof that

4686
02:47:15,750 --> 02:47:14,479
it's not it's it's the way i kind of

4687
02:47:21,830 --> 02:47:15,760
look at it

4688
02:47:23,670 --> 02:47:21,840
one of the things i

4689
02:47:26,950 --> 02:47:23,680
one of the rare things i think i'm good

4690
02:47:28,630 --> 02:47:26,960
at is reading a room

4691
02:47:31,349 --> 02:47:28,640
whether or not i can talk about this

4692
02:47:33,590 --> 02:47:31,359
stuff and how far um

4693
02:47:35,910 --> 02:47:33,600
when i worked uh when i worked on uber i

4694
02:47:37,750 --> 02:47:35,920
drove uber for two years for a month two

4695
02:47:40,070 --> 02:47:37,760
years ago i did it for a month

4696
02:47:41,670 --> 02:47:40,080
and

4697
02:47:43,030 --> 02:47:41,680
i had some great conversations with

4698
02:47:44,870 --> 02:47:43,040
people in the car you would not believe

4699
02:47:47,510 --> 02:47:44,880
some of the stories and it was usually

4700
02:47:49,269 --> 02:47:47,520
the dr the rides were like 15 minutes

4701
02:47:51,750 --> 02:47:49,279
anywhere from 15 minutes 10 minutes to

4702
02:47:53,910 --> 02:47:51,760
45 minutes i remember having one car was

4703
02:47:55,590 --> 02:47:53,920
multiple pickups had like one person in

4704
02:47:57,910 --> 02:47:55,600
the passenger seat three people in the

4705
02:48:00,870 --> 02:47:57,920
back an entire conversation it was all

4706
02:48:06,389 --> 02:48:00,880
different people military older woman

4707
02:48:08,230 --> 02:48:06,399
um and it was all ufos it was great and

4708
02:48:10,630 --> 02:48:08,240
we need to cut this off now you need to

4709
02:48:11,990 --> 02:48:10,640
eat or i need to eat

4710
02:48:14,150 --> 02:48:12,000
we've been going for 2 hours and 48

4711
02:48:15,590 --> 02:48:14,160
minutes and i appreciate all the

4712
02:48:17,750 --> 02:48:15,600
questions and especially you michael for

4713
02:48:19,750 --> 02:48:17,760
staying with me this long uh we'll do it

4714
02:48:22,309 --> 02:48:19,760
again

4715
02:48:23,750 --> 02:48:22,319
uh lucky to have you and uh

4716
02:48:25,990 --> 02:48:23,760
we'll do this again

4717
02:48:27,429 --> 02:48:26,000
yeah let's do it again and uh thanks

4718
02:48:28,950 --> 02:48:27,439
thank you for being here and i will talk

4719
02:48:30,469 --> 02:48:28,960
to you soon

4720
02:48:32,230 --> 02:48:30,479
all right see you later joe see you

4721
02:48:36,550 --> 02:48:32,240
everyone

4722
02:48:40,469 --> 02:48:39,110
so that was good um i still need to go

4723
02:48:42,550 --> 02:48:40,479
through

4724
02:48:44,469 --> 02:48:42,560
skinwalkers at the pentagon oh somebody

4725
02:48:46,070 --> 02:48:44,479
came up with uh i make jokes about the

4726
02:48:48,710 --> 02:48:46,080
cover i don't care about the cover but

4727
02:48:50,389 --> 02:48:48,720
somebody did come up with a cool cover

4728
02:48:52,550 --> 02:48:50,399
that's

4729
02:48:53,990 --> 02:48:52,560
that really caught my eye and i realized

4730
02:48:56,309 --> 02:48:54,000
some people

4731
02:48:58,630 --> 02:48:56,319
do buy books on covers

4732
02:49:00,230 --> 02:48:58,640
but you know remember they were

4733
02:49:01,990 --> 02:49:00,240
they're trying to keep this on the down

4734
02:49:03,990 --> 02:49:02,000
low so

4735
02:49:07,110 --> 02:49:04,000
it probably limited who they could reach

4736
02:49:11,190 --> 02:49:07,120
out to as far as coming up with a cover

4737
02:49:15,590 --> 02:49:12,630
which you can't see because of the

4738
02:49:21,910 --> 02:49:15,600
hearts at least on my screen

4739
02:49:24,710 --> 02:49:23,429
nice cover

4740
02:49:26,469 --> 02:49:24,720
like i said i would put that on the

4741
02:49:27,910 --> 02:49:26,479
t-shirt only because i mean

4742
02:49:29,269 --> 02:49:27,920
i want to get my own t-shirts not

4743
02:49:30,469 --> 02:49:29,279
because i want to sell t-shirts and make

4744
02:49:32,790 --> 02:49:30,479
a lot of money but i want to get

4745
02:49:34,710 --> 02:49:32,800
t-shirts nice t-shirts that relate to

4746
02:49:36,230 --> 02:49:34,720
the phenomenons that that'll force

4747
02:49:38,150 --> 02:49:36,240
people to say oh what's your t-shirt

4748
02:49:39,670 --> 02:49:38,160
about because i do like talking to new

4749
02:49:40,950 --> 02:49:39,680
people who have never heard about this

4750
02:49:42,230 --> 02:49:40,960
stuff before it's like one of my

4751
02:49:45,190 --> 02:49:42,240
favorite things and i have not done that

4752
02:49:47,030 --> 02:49:45,200
in a while i have my skinwalker

4753
02:49:48,870 --> 02:49:47,040
hunt for the skin marker t-shirt on

4754
02:49:52,389 --> 02:49:48,880
right now that

4755
02:49:54,070 --> 02:49:52,399
matt adams gave me at the um

4756
02:49:55,910 --> 02:49:54,080
hunt for the skinwalker premiere that

4757
02:49:58,710 --> 02:49:55,920
was in vegas that's when i first met lu

4758
02:50:01,510 --> 02:49:58,720
elizondo and came across as a little fan

4759
02:50:03,990 --> 02:50:01,520
fanboy hello mr elizondo nice to meet

4760
02:50:06,389 --> 02:50:04,000
you he's like yeah my wife's here i

4761
02:50:09,910 --> 02:50:06,399
i gotta go

4762
02:50:13,910 --> 02:50:11,670
i think i am gonna go and call it a

4763
02:50:18,630 --> 02:50:13,920
night thank you everybody for being here

4764
02:50:21,670 --> 02:50:20,230
i still need to do more on this book

4765
02:50:23,670 --> 02:50:21,680
there's so much in the book there's so

4766
02:50:25,190 --> 02:50:23,680
many details i can't get to and i'll put

4767
02:50:25,990 --> 02:50:25,200
up the links for those two books sounds

4768
02:50:27,429 --> 02:50:26,000
like

4769
02:50:28,710 --> 02:50:27,439
unconventional flying sausage is a

4770
02:50:30,790 --> 02:50:28,720
little technical that's why i'm glad

4771
02:50:33,030 --> 02:50:30,800
he's writing a review but the other one

4772
02:50:35,990 --> 02:50:33,040
i do have i forget the name of it but

4773
02:50:38,389 --> 02:50:36,000
i'll link to it in the shell show notes

4774
02:50:40,710 --> 02:50:38,399
yeah guys thank you thank you again